The beginning of the story is the first line

Zoooooooom - (the sound of this post sailing over Nik's head).

I see what you're saying, Colin, really I do. But it doesn't make sense. The story begins with the first sentence. What one includes in that beginning is up to them. But the beginning is the beginning is the beginning.

Look at th euse of flash backs. They happened in the past but you wouldn't put them at the beginning. They happen, in terms of story, narrative and plot, at some point after the beginning, say for example, five chapters in. But that doesn't mean to say you should begin your story at ch 5, does it? You begin where it's appropriate to begin. Chronology has nowt to do it with. But the beginning of your book is word 1, line 1. You can't change that!

Nik.

I really don't think it is going over her head, Colin. It seems to me that she's drawing a distinction between what actually happens in the book (which can be presentedin any order) and the story as told and revealed to the reader (which obviously begins on page 1)- the tale and the telling of it.

I rather think that you and she are saying the same thing.



<Added>

Please read "he" not "she" throughout- sorry, Nik!

"How many stories start at the end and work their way back" "This isn't a statistical thing - you only need one!"

How about 'Nightwatch', Sarah Waters?

Jim


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Knownowt - you write "she's drawing a distinction between what actually happens in the book (which can be presentedin any order) and the story as told and revealed to the reader"

Spot on - story/plot and narration.

J

Yeah, spot on, Knownowt.

Jim, I meant, even though I phrased it poorly, that there are loads and loads of books whose ends are at the beginning. [But for the ends to be at the beginning, Colin, there must still be a beginning] I've actually not read Nightwatch (although it's on my list). I've a few to get through first, like Emma's, stuff for research, and one brilliant looking one called 'HIgh John the Conqueror' which I doubt you've heard of. It's supposed to be good though.

Nik.

Aw shucks, Nik, you done rung my bell!

I try not to agonize too much about this question of what-goes-where-in what-order. But I still do. Say you want to access a character's life/mind before the chronological start of the story ... do you have them in the present, thinking about it in some form (how much detail? sequential or jumbled? etc) or do you slot in a fully-worked 'he said/she said' 'flashback'? It's a point of view question ultimately I guess, and maybe deserves some puzzling over ... right, that's enough displacement activity for one morning: signing off to write!

'Saturday' by Ian McEwan (whatever you think of it) is an adept example of a way to tackle this problem.

Jim

Can I recommend a book called Writing Fiction - A Guide to Narrative Craft by Janet Burroway. It's in its sixth edition so I think she must have something going for her. It really gets me thinking about all the usual things - plot, characterization etc - because she includes stories and then asks questions which get you to look at the 'architecture' of the story.There's a brilliant chapter about Story Form, Plot and Structure using Cinderella as an example to explain conflict, crisis, resolution. I've found a gem of a story by Margaret Attwood called Happy Endings which is a lesson in writing and a story combined. Worth putting on your Christmas List. And boys, stop bickering!

only when he gives me back my crayons!

Good lads!

Just wanted to say I work for Cornerstones as a freelance reader, and I happen to know that Helen and Lee did NOT choose the title - in fact, they strongly lobbied against it - but in the end, the final decision was down to the publisher. So you're right, Colin - it's a stupid title - but Helen and Lee agree with you! (Hello from the AW site, by the way! I have joined as a trial member)

Thanks for sharing, Moondance. Makes sense!

Welcome to the site!

Nik.

*waves*

Joanna, welcome to WW.

I'm so glad you said that about the title as it was the only bit of the book that jarred with me.

I hope you can stick around. Up to now I've been impressed with Cornerstones as an organisation, and your insight could be very useful to a lot of struggling writers here.

Dee

Thanks for the welsome, Dee. I actually work for the Kids Corner section and have done for...ooh...four years now? Gosh, hadn't realised it was that long!
In fact, I have four picture books waiting to be critiqued at this very moment... I tend to critique picture books more often than other categories, although I also occasionally cover early readers and YA fiction. Kids' Corner requires that all their readers are published in the field they critique, so I wasn't allowed to do anything other than pbooks for a long time!
Kathryn and Helen at Cornerstones are both lovely people and I know they work very hard to make Cornerstones as user-friendly and economic as possible. They even critiqued my first YA novel for me, agreeing to pass it to agents afterwards. That novel will be out on the shelves in March, published by Faber & Faber

In fact, I've just received a couple of proof copies and am thinking of sending one in to the Write Words review section...