Login   Sign Up 



 




This 26 message thread spans 2 pages: 1  2  > >  
  • Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Zettel at 10:13 on 25 September 2009
    I’m bemused, bewildered and to be honest, bloody angry. What is the widespread acclaim and exaggerated praise for this movie all about? OK, I’m sorry that feisty, attractive 15 year-old Mia’s mother is a dysfunctional, feckless waste of space. I understand that makes Mia conflicted and angry enough to pick a fight and without any physical provocation break the nose of the leader of an equally unlovely bunch of teenage girls on the grounds that their futile aspiration to be dancers is even more detached from reality than is her own. Just. But I don’t buy into the idea that shouting ‘f***’ and ‘f***ing’ a lot and calling anyone she’s pissed off with including her pre-pubescent sister a c*** is incontrovertible proof of either feistiness or hidden strength of character.

    When for the love of God or whatever you hold most dear, is someone going to find something interesting, dramatic or worthwhile about the lives of all the non-dysfunctional decent, genuinely strong individuals and families on council estates struggling to bring up kids and pay bills other than for the TV or the booze and fags? I can’t believe I’m saying this because I know what it makes me sound like. But it is true. This film for me almost whinges off the screen. It constantly begs us to blame everything wrong with Mia’s life on her environment, her mum, her mum’s boyfriend, by implication the school, the social worker or some irresistible deterministic combination of them all. Her only response to her mum’s inadequacy is take it out on everyone else, shout and swear a lot and petulantly reject any and very effort to help her other than to indulge her unjustified X-Factor belief that she can dance. In the real world, any 15 year-old girl with the looks, the courage and the strength of character that the superb Katie Jarvis’s performance suggests Mia possesses would have gratefully grabbed the help offered by a dedicated teacher, a committed social worker, or simply a concerned adult and got a grip on what she needed to do to escape repeating her mother’s passively self-defeating personal path to self-pitying misery. Mia’s ‘triumph’ over the shittiness of her life is to bugger off on spec to Wales with a likeable but rootless bloke because he “has a mate there.”

    I was raised on a council estate albeit a rural not an urban one: and at a time when journalists - print and broadcast - were not permanently camped out ready to provide the pictures and ‘stories’ to reinforce the preconceived attitudes of their editors at the Sun or the Mail or even the occasional Panorama special. Every community of people has their ‘problem’ families, council estates perhaps more than most, but the idea that the people who shout loudest, behave worst, demand the most attention, are either representative of those communities, or worse, the only ones whose stories are worth telling, is self-serving sentimental claptrap. It is also a deep abiding injustice and insult to the genuine, honest, hard-working majority whose contempt for the loud-mouthed, anti-social minority is equal to that they have for the slumming journalists and film-makers who propagate this lie because it flogs papers to people who want their unexamined prejudices massaged; or puts privileged bums on film festival seats and permits smart-arsed critics or self-obsessed grungily dressed actors to dip into a bit of vicarious street cred. Yo man. Innit?

    And please don’t talk to me about Ken Loach or Mike Leigh: there is more warmth, more respect, more understanding, more love in 5 minutes of Looking For Eric, Kes or Vera Drake, than in the whole overblown 123 minutes of Fish Tank. Just as Loach’s lovely little Cantona film says more about the ordinary working man’s love of football than all the exploitative hooligan movies put together.

    Yes, technically Fish Tank is accomplished: well shot and edited; cinematographer Robbie Ryan wringing at times a bleak, edgy kind of beauty out of the unpromising Essex urban and suburban fringe landscapes; and Arnold’s direction keeps us up close and personal with Mia. But it isn’t enough: it really isn’t. We know exactly what mum’s boyfriend is going to do long before he does it; and the film invites us to accept it as just what you’d expect; just one of those things. Mia’s revenge is as with almost everything else the script makes her do; petulant, stupid, cruel and utterly pointless. And one scene in her seducer’s middle class family home is I’m sure supposed to be shocking but is in reality just gratuitous. If Jarvis was persuaded to do it for real – because “the scene requires it” that’s pretty close to exploitation – it isn’t necessary and it doesn’t work. The paradoxical void at the heart of this frankly vacuous movie is that Director Arnold cannot or will not let her narrative give us the strong, feisty, courageous young woman Katie Jarvis is so effectively portraying. Victimhood plays. Michael Fassbinder is in the same boat: another good actor whose performance outstrips what Arnold makes his character of Connor, first mum’s lover then Mia’s seducer, actually do.

    I won’t summarise the plot: frankly as soon as the tone and the characters are set up – you could write it yourself. Fish Tank is a depressing movie: not because it portrays depressing events but because it exploits a one-dimensional, shallow, clichéd perspective on working class behaviour to create a phoney kind of gritty ‘realism’. I’ve seen documentaries and fictional films about poor, underprivileged people all around the world including recently the excellent Frozen River. Sadly and infuriatingly, with the honourable exception of Leigh and Loach especially, what often defines the British movie on these themes, set in these contexts, is the underlying tone and passive acceptance of victimhood as an emotional hook and dramatic driver. This makes poor British people struggling with adverse social conditions seem weak, put upon and lacking in any kind of constructive rebelliousness, proud defiance. In a word, dignity. And I don’t think that’s true – for a second. And no of course I’m not taking the facile Daily Mail editorial tone, that because one or two make it, everyone can. Anti-social, self-hating gestures of destructive defiance may make good copy and ‘gritty’ movies: but they don’t match up against the truthful portrayal of the inspirational determination of struggling people in other cultures, just to survive and maintain decent standards of behaviour and respect for one another within their poor communities. I think Fish Tank takes a grain of truth and turns it into a massive, destructive, perhaps even unwitting, lie. And the kind of people it purports to portray – really do deserve better.

    Save your money: and if you haven’t seen it, go and see Looking for Eric instead. Even if you can’t stand football – it really doesn’t matter. One bright spot: Katie Jarvis is a real find. She just needs a film worthy of her talent.

    See also:
    http://www.zettelfilmreviews.co.uk
    http://www.twitter.com/zettel23


    PS - I asterisk (*) swearwords not out of coyness but because Google can pick up and misconstrue the fully spelt out words.





  • Re: Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Jem at 14:17 on 25 September 2009
    I loved it, actually.
    I just don’t buy into the idea that shouting ‘f***’ and ‘f***ing’ a lot and calling anyone she’s pissed off with including her pre-pubescent sister a c*** is incontrovertible proof of either feistiness or hidden strength of character.


    I don't think the director is trying to demonstrate the girl's hidden strength of character and that's just why I liked it. She just observes rather than tries to explain anything. I love her lack of sentimentality about the working classes, a tendency not shared with Loach and Leigh, who I always find a little too sentimental for my taste.

    I loved Red Road too and I look forward to her next film.
  • Re: Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Terry Edge at 15:58 on 25 September 2009
    Hoorah! Well said, Zed. I had an instinctive spirit-shudder away from this film after reading the reviews. You've saved me another tenner at the Greenwich Odeon; thanks. Do they have an equivalent in the US? Juno made my teeth itch.

    Terry

  • Re: Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Zettel at 01:22 on 26 September 2009
    J

    The dividing line between sentiment and sentimentality is always tricky: never more so than in working class contexts. And I can agree that Leigh and Loach sometimes cross it. But their films have a warmth, an affection, a respect for their context that I can't feel in Fish Tank. I've been trying to think of another film with FT's, for me almost unique problem: I like the Mia Katie Jarvis seems to be playing[/i} but she seems to be out of synch with the Mia Andrea Arnold seems to want. And it is why Arnold wants the Mia she wants that I am suspicious of.

    I think it's hard not to feel the Director wants us to feel that there is more to Mia than others see; that she is stronger than she looks; that she has an independent spirit all of which can emerge if someone believes in her. And yes she gets screwed in both senses - literally and in that the only person who seemed to believe in her let her down. Being let down is the story of her life. In this instance both forms of betrayal come from the same figure.

    I wanted to like this film and I do admire it technically and in performance terms. But I still feel the conception of the culture and social mores in the film is patronising and self-serving. What comes over I agree with you is detached and descriptive: but that's sort of my point: Arnold's Mia is irreducibly a victim born to a victim in a society that has come to terms with that self image and so lives it out. There are clearly people like that: I just don't think they are remotely representative of their community or if the word still means anything, their class. Jarvis hints that there may be some hope for Mia, that she can break out of the spiral that holds her mother prisoner. But Arnold's Mia is hope less and hopeless. I just think Jarvis's Mia is more interesting, more engaging. Arnold's Mia is gonna get knocked up and by force of necessity walk in her mother's sad footsteps.

    All that happens: far too often. But what I displke about Arnold's perspective is that her apparent non-judgmental 'detachment' implictly reinforces the idea that this is inevitable. I don't think that's true. And I don't think implying it is true in a movie made to attract paying customers, is a very impressive use of the artistic skills that Arnold clearly has.

    So I guess we must beg to differ. And intelligent dissent is worth far more than passive agreement any day of the week.

    Thanks for the comment. I'll have to try and see Red Road.

    regards

    Zettel

    <Added>

    oops. sorry, screwed up the italics syntax. can't change it now.

    Z
  • Re: Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Zettel at 01:42 on 26 September 2009
    Terry

    Thanks for the comment. I don't know if they have the same in the US. But Juno had the same affect on me. In a way I guess it had the same kind of falseness I think this one has. With Juno it was a mid-thirties-year-old screenwriter making teenagers talk cute-'dirty' because the stereotype had marketing juice. And sadly she was right.

    regards

    Z
  • Re: Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Jem at 11:23 on 27 September 2009
    Oh, I liked Juno too! I loved that it stepped away from the stereotype of teenage mum keeping the baby when she gave it away in the end and went on to live a good life. I loved that she was funny and bright and in control. So many young women in films nowadays are so wet.

    I don't understand what you mean about a mid-thirties script writer. I didn't think the teenagers talked 'dirty' - more 'witty'. I thought it was quite the best script in a film about young people I've heard in a while. Plus, it was written by a woman who, I think, managed to get into the head of a young girl far more realistically than male writers who try to write rom-com female characters, who, frankly, appear never to have ever known a woman long enough to get inside her head.

    I think we have to agree to disagree on this one!
  • Re: Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Turner Stiles at 18:48 on 15 August 2011
    Watched Fish Tank last night. I thought it was fantastic. Disagree with virtually everything you've said here Zettel. I know girls and families who are exactly like that. A "real" Mia wouldn't necessarily grab at any help proffered. Not at all. Couldn't find a hint of sentimentality about this film.
  • Re: Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Jem at 19:16 on 15 August 2011
    Turner, have you seen "Red Road"? Try and catch it if you can on Love Film or something.
  • Re: Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Turner Stiles at 19:20 on 15 August 2011
    I shall seek it out, definitely.
  • Re: Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Terry Edge at 10:06 on 16 August 2011
    Watched Fish Tank last night. I thought it was fantastic. Disagree with virtually everything you've said here Zettel. I know girls and families who are exactly like that. A "real" Mia wouldn't necessarily grab at any help proffered. Not at all. Couldn't find a hint of sentimentality about this film.



    First, I acknowledge I'm on shaky ground, not having seen this film. The fact I can smell its type from several hundred yards away and had my fears confirmed by Z's review is not really a substitute for not having actually watched it. But I think Z's point was that yes of course there are girls and families like Mia, but how come film-makers never seem to want to make films about people that aren't like her? For me, the biggest irritation about 'gritty' films is that critics always seem to think they're more artful. In fact, it's much easier to write shouty, whiny, depressed, needy, callous characters, mainly because they're boringly predictable. Far harder to write a character who's intelligent, creative, spontaneous and optimistic. And when a writer/film-maker does go more for that kind of character, it isn't a sign they're somehow less tuned-in, or that they suffer from prudishness or don't understand the 'real' world. They may actually be doing a bit of work instead of just putting up the "f*ck" count and having everybody snarl a lot. I don't think, for example, that 'sentimentality' is necessarily the opposite of gritty. How about intelligent transcendence or genuine humour, or dialogue that surprises and uplifts?

    Terry
  • Re: Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Zettel at 11:43 on 16 August 2011
    Of course there are girls like Mia and her chums. We saw 100's of them on the streets of London, Manchester and Birmingham last weekend.

    But we also saw a young man from abroad grievously injured, hatefully abused who said he wanted to stay in England despite his appalling treatment. Not a single whinge. He comes from a poor background in his country. And we saw a man trying unsuccessfully to revive his dying son and yet who didn't lash-out, kick-out, heaping blame on everyone else.

    How much footage, how much discussion time in the media, comparatively, will we see devoted to the rioters in comparison to the many extraordinary small examples of humanity and courage working class people dsiplayed to one another througout? Trouble is a quietly spoken Asian visitor and a gentle bereaved man aren't photogenic, 'exciting' enough beside raging infernos, feral fools in masks etc etc etc etc.

    A long way from this film. But bottom line I'd rather see a film about the boy with the broken jaw or the man with the broken heart than one second's footage fictional or factual but definitely fatuous about the 'misunderstood' thugs who just like Mia are in no way representative of the good people unfortunate to have them living amongst them. Most young people in all of the riot areas weren't out on the streets causing mayhem they were watching with disgust and shame the example on the TV screens before them.

    Phew: glad I got that off my chest. I'm actually an unreconstructed liberal with radical views. Doesn't mean I have be stupid though.

    best to all - including those who take a different view. Vive la difference - it's better to debate than bomb; talk than terrorize.

    Z
  • Re: Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Account Closed at 19:14 on 16 August 2011
    Jem,

    I saw this a while back, and thought it was brilliant, albeit depressing, too!

  • Re: Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Turner Stiles at 20:48 on 16 August 2011
    Of course there are girls like Mia and her chums. We saw 100's of them on the streets of London, Manchester and Birmingham last weekend.


    Mia and her mates? She didn't have any mates did she? And she didn't strike me as they type who'd join in with the looting, either.

    But we also saw a young man from abroad grievously injured, hatefully abused who said he wanted to stay in England despite his appalling treatment. Not a single whinge. He comes from a poor background in his country. And we saw a man trying unsuccessfully to revive his dying son and yet who didn't lash-out, kick-out, heaping blame on everyone else.


    Admirable, true. But what has that got to do with Fish Tank? It wasn't about admirable people. It was about flawed people, not admirable people.


    A long way from this film. But bottom line I'd rather see a film about the boy with the broken jaw or the man with the broken heart than one second's footage fictional or factual but definitely fatuous about the 'misunderstood' thugs who just like Mia are in no way representative of the good people unfortunate to have them living amongst them. Most young people in all of the riot areas weren't out on the streets causing mayhem they were watching with disgust and shame the example on the TV screens before them.


    Ah, right. OK.

    I didn't see Mia as a thug. She was damaged goods, certainly, but did you not see one shred of human decency in that character? None whatsoever?

    I don't think the film was trying to paint Mia as "misunderstood". It was all too understandable why she acted the way she did. To act in any other way would have been somewhat freakish, no?

    I too would like to see a film about the kind of people you mention. But as for Fish Tank, I thought it was sensitive (definitely not sentimental) non-sensationlist and utterly responsible.

    And I would have pissed on that dickhead's carpet as well.

    What did John Major say? We need to understand less and condemn more? I think Fish Tank strives to understand but without giving any easy answers. Because there are none.

    I didn't think there was that much swearing in it either.

  • Re: Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Jem at 22:50 on 16 August 2011
    This is for Terry. Why are you even on this thread? You haven't seen the film and you've offered an opinion on it TWICE!

    but how come film-makers never seem to want to make films about people that aren't like her?


    Well, they do and they have done but you didn't like sassy Juno either.
  • Re: Fish Tank – Andrea Arnold (partial spoiler elements)
    by Zettel at 00:24 on 17 August 2011
    Hey Turner/Russ

    I'm at a bit of a disadvantage as it's almost 2 years since I saw the film. The strength of your and other's reaction certainly suggests to me I'd like to see it again on DVD and re-assess.

    By Mia's 'mates' I meant kids only too ready to blame others for what goes wrong and to feel justified in lashing out and doing whatever their immediate feelings dictate rather than what the situation justifies.

    My only problem with swearing is aesthetic - it has no moral dimension for me. That said I would have thought most people would say objectively there was a lot of swearing - which for me wasn't doing anything dramatically.

    As for Mia not seeming like the kind to loot - well that appears to have been true of most of the people doing it last week - one of the more disturbing aspects of the phenomenon.

    The only links to Fish Tank are the sense of victimhood common to most of the looters and Mia herself and its use to justify their behaviour. The other is the constant linkage made between working class environments and self-obsessed, self-justificatory behaviour as if this is a necessary cause and effect - it just ain't true but it make for lazy, easy dramatic effect. A parallel but totally different is the increasing number of plays and dramas, even comedies especially on the radio, where it has become common practice to have a character with alzheimers - it's a cheap way to wring a bit of false emotion out of us.

    My whole point about Fish Tank was the superb film it might have beenif the director and writer had written and shown the more interesting characters that the excellent players were hinting at. Those characters, I saw much human decency in - but not the actual characters and what they were 'written' to do in the actual film rather than the one it might have been.

    I didn't think the people who made FT for one minute tried to understand the environment they portrayed - because I don't think they came from that environment (I need to check that)and so to me anyway they exploited stereotypical assumptions about that environment.

    And yes I too would have pissed on the carpet - but I wouldn't necessarily have wanted to be filmed doing it and the fact could easily have been established less crudely for the actress concerned.

    In the end it#s one person's view: all we can do is try try to explain and argue for the view we adopt. That I did and am doing. As for Juno - I enjoyed the film but for me it patronised young people's language and talk and in a sense for the same reason as in FT, the writer in her mid-thirties was of necessity reporting on current teenage language - because she wasn't so to speak from there (today at least). But it was slick and funny - that's what Hollywood does better than anyone.

    Not claiming the last word but I can't say much more about FT until I've given it another look.

    regards

    Z

  • This 26 message thread spans 2 pages: 1  2  > >