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  • West Wing Update
    by Zettel at 23:37 on 21 December 2004
    Sorry to be a bore about this. But if there is a better conceived, better produced, better directed, better acted,and most importantly, better written, series on TV - I haven't seen it.

    As with any series - take a little time to get the best out of it. But it's worth the effort.

    Best wishes


    Zettel
  • Re: West Wing Update
    by James Anthony at 09:30 on 22 December 2004
    Agree with he above, except the writing sometimes wanders up a cul-de-sac of its own importance (in fact, I could see that line being used and an example in point). It is very good, but when they re-use the same techniques all the time - repeating things twice, playing ever-decreasing -circles with words so that, when they finish, you feel they have just said something tremdously important and inciteful when all they have actually done is secure themselves in a self-affirming circle - it can get a little tiresome. Also, their female characters are VERY hit and miss.

    I am thinking in particular of the US Poet Laureate who says in the first 10 seconds of her introduction: Am I weird straight off the bat? Come on! That really made me cringe. Then there is Josh's girlfriend in the third series, whose name, thank god, I can't remember, who seems the spend the entire time on screen being kooky, but brilliant - apparently. In fact, one scene in particular is where she is singing along to the radio - crazy fool that she is - and then asks at the conclusion of the scene: Why have I been singing? Oh because you so kooky, love, that's why.

    Although, as I say, it is hit and miss and to put the other side, CJ is a superb character and protrayal of a woman in power who isn't some icy bitch. Also, Josh's assistant, Donna, is great.

    overall though, it is a brilliant series!
  • Re: West Wing Update
    by James Anthony at 10:07 on 22 December 2004
    inciteful (sic) - sorry -
  • Re: West Wing Update
    by Zettel at 21:48 on 22 December 2004
    James

    I pretty much agree. I guess it is because the programme's political and moral heart is in the right place and at key points, takes a line that makes it hard to believe it got major Networking in the US. It certainly has its slick moments as you say. But apart from taking politics and the exercise of power seriously, it is sometimes very funny e.g. when CJ had to talk to the people who wanted to re-draw the map of the world.

    I would like to know at what point Sorkin leaves/left to see the impact.

    Regards

    Z


  • Re: West Wing Update
    by Bianca at 15:43 on 27 December 2004
    Hi again Zettel

    Know we've had this discussion before, but I have to back you up on The West Wing.

    As you know I am only on Series 4 (taking the DVDs slowly so that my withdrawal symptons are not too severe before I can get my hands on Series 5) but I cannot find anything to match it. Recently watched the pretty stupid episode where Donna made a mess of her ballot paper - but God, it may me laugh.

    Should you find anything to match it, please let me know.

    Shirley
  • Re: West Wing Update
    by Bianca at 15:44 on 27 December 2004
    Zettel

    Made me laugh even!

    Shirley
  • Re: West Wing Update
    by Zettel at 13:12 on 28 December 2004
    Shirley

    Unfortunately can't remeber wherE it comes in the series but the one day each year McGarry makes all the WH staff meet with 'crazy' people with special hobby horses, but who never get listened to, is an absolute gem and includes the one I mentioned where CJ gets the (maybe not so) mad revisionist map makers who rightly (I think) point out that the normal mercador map projection of the world shows many countries, curiously mostly western ones, as disproportionately large (thus important) in comparison to others. They argue that to properly represent the various countries in their proper relative proportions would have important political ramifications. Amidst other urgent demands in her day, CJ with her usual commitment to sanity and concern, does her best with this. At the best point, when the cartographers have finally launched their final radical missile, that there is a rationale for turning the Northern and Southern hemispheres upside down, CJ says she has to leave. Politely they enquire:
    "Why, is there an emergency?" She replies:
    "No but you're freaking me out." Not much in isolation but very funny in context believe me.

    I don't know whether any of this is remotely logical or even true but it certainly should be true.

    Enjoy.

    Z
  • Re: West Wing Update
    by Bianca at 16:04 on 01 January 2005
    Hi Zettel

    Sounds interesting and amusing. Not come across it yet but will look forward to it.

    Shirley
  • Re: West Wing Update
    by Bianca at 18:09 on 17 February 2005
    Zettel

    Sorry if I'm also being a bore, but have now finished watching the fourth series of The West Wing and it just gets better and better. Don't think I have ever been as passionate about a T.V. series before. I am utterly devastated that I will have to wait months before the next series is available on DVD.

    The writing gives the viewer an insight into American politics which is usually difficult to comprehend whilst at the same time potraying the dedication of those surrounding the President (do they ever sleep?) The last two episodes with the birth of Toby's twins and the kidnapping of Zoe were remarkable - so much emotion leading to the cliffhanger climax.

    No, I definately do not know of any other T.V. series that comes anywhere near it.

    How will I get through the next six months or so?

    I could go on and on but have one arm in plaster and this has taken me long enough to type.

    Shirley

    Shirley


  • Re: West Wing Update
    by Jardinery at 18:12 on 17 February 2005
    get digital and E4 and you'd have already seen the next series...
  • Re: West Wing Update
    by Zettel at 12:29 on 18 February 2005
    Shirley, Jai

    Nice to know fellow fans of the series still out there. I'm a bit behind you both it seems in series etc - but I guess I'll catch up in the end.

    The sobering thing about the series is that I wish I could believe the current incumbent and his administration have one tenth of the dedication, intelligence and just plain old-fashioned idealism, shown in the show.

    Given its persistent liberal agenda and constant return to the hottest of American Poltical topics: guns, environment, distorting simplification of complex issues, it is nothing short of a miracle that it is still made let alone aired.

    Regards

    Z
  • Re: West Wing Update
    by Davy Skyflyer at 13:35 on 18 February 2005
    Dearest Zettel, I know I've done this before, but in the name of mass debating on a Friday afternoon, I feel I should contribute:

    Maybe the real right wing American politicians (are there any other kind?) quite like the fact there's this programme that skews reality so far from the truth that people can feel comfortable watching Bartlett and his liberal minded friends, somehow confusing in their own minds the fact their nation's government bears very little resemblence to the power that is in the White House in TV Land, but it makes them feel good in themselves, coz there it is, on the screen; American democracy in all its liberal minded, "fighting the bad guys" glory. Hell, there's even a rogue Arab state that they conviently made up, just so as to avoid the reality of the SHITHOLE they are currently creating from the Tiberis to the Holy Land, and with a bit of time and good planning maybe beyond. Maybe, if the programme challanged the REAL order of American (so read world) corruption and dodgy lying fat cat politicians, instead of making shit up out of thin air and portraying the place offically known as "DreamWorld", then there would be problems. The morons on Fox News would probably ending up trying to start a campaign to have Bartlett impeached, and then find out its not real so just launch a campaign to ban it, but at least it would be doing something other than perpetuating some myth that American democracy has ever or will ever be like it is portrayed on the West Wing.

    As far as I can see, Bartlett and his gang will constantly remind us of the irrespressible duty of the US of A to fight evil and oppression, and yes of course, tyranny, in all its forms. Hell, they ain't perfect, gee, the President's even lying to his people (though its a good lie, he's not one of them "I did not have sexual relations with this woman" sorts) and everyday throws up (sorry, did I? Must be Series 5 beginning) its own domestic problems, but you know, when there's a North Korean pianist who wants to defect, or said rogue Arab state to condemn, Bartlett'll drop everything to be there. CJ will self-righteously do everything to change governmental policy (and goddamit she might just be right Mr Pwesident), and Joel (is that iz name?) and Beardy face will get all coercive and mysterious and moody and argue and dig out some old volume of "The Founding Fathers Easy Guide to Democracy" and point out the others errors and everything will look hectic and oh-oh the Chinese lad's got to go home, no he doesn't just listen to the tune, oh yeah, oh God there's a bomb in LA, Jack's only got (another) 24 hours to stop it, Mr President's dead, no alive, poisoned, shot, shit, I've lost it...

    Bloody Yanks...


  • Re: West Wing Update
    by Terry Edge at 15:17 on 18 February 2005
    Dav,

    For someone who obviously hates the programme so much, you seem to know an awful lot about it. Hmmm ... I face the same dilemma when taking the piss out of romantic comedies, which is: if you keep it general then your points don't really stick, but if you make it specific, you can be very funny (as your savaging is) but you also give the game away that you are actually in love with the very thing you purport to hate. (Aren't most Doris Day/Rock Hudson films based on the same premise, not that I'd ever watch such shamelessly manipulative, emotionally hypocritical, not to say sexually deceptive, at least where Rock's concerned, nonsense.)

    Terry
  • Re: West Wing Update
    by Davy Skyflyer at 15:31 on 18 February 2005
    Haha Terry I s'pose you got me there! It's only coz my older bro has the DVD and then I got Sky and you know, there's never anything on and...

    ...bloody bloomin Yanks with their piffly yet quality drama writing.

    Actually, I admit Aaron Sorkin's writing is full of great, punchy dialogue and the first 2 series were really good, but as it goes on the ideas dry up I guess, but I'd challenge the notion there is nothing better on TV. Most of Paul Abbot's writing is just as good, more realistic, wittier and more incisive. I thought State of Play was great stuff, and the one off drama called "The Deal" directed by Stephen Frears and written by Pete Morgan kicked the West Wing's sorry arse in terms of realistic political drama!

    So yeah I watch it and yeah (almost) enjoy it but only coz Martin Sheen is an amazing actor and Apocolypse Now is an even more amazing film, but can't help make petulant comments about American politics all the while, and it kind of depresses me coz I know it's so far removed from the truth.

    Gimme UK Gold re-runs of Yes Prime Minister anyday - far more realistic!

  • Re: West Wing Update
    by Terry Edge at 15:41 on 18 February 2005
    Most of the TV I watch, and the writers I admire, are American, including the West Wing. You're right that WW doesn't hold up to close analysis a lot of the time – I mean, I've often had to rewind a section thinking I'm too thick to follow it, then realising that, no,actually it just doesn't make sense. And when I think about it, most US dramas don't add up when you look too closely. 'Alias' for instance, you can drive a horse and cart – sorry, a very expensive Ferrari that underpaid government agents seem to have no trouble driving around in – through plot-wise, yet it's very watchable. My Friday afternoon theory is that what good American drama (and their comedies, actually) never forget is that you need a strong emotional core to a story to make it watchable. If you provide that, viewers will tolerate any number of outrageous plot faults. By contrast, UK programmes tend to shy away from emotional punch.

    Terry
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