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Hi all
The latest dilemma. Nobody seems to really appreciate the humour in my novel, and several professionals have now advised me to recast the book in a serious, dark fantasy mode.
This is no small feat, considering it will require a semi-major reworking of the story, but then, seeing as the feedback has been positive despite the japery, I suppose it's something I should consider?
JB
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Not if you feel it's part of your voice. Junot Diaz said that the west have a real problem with humour in dark fiction and that most people don't get the importance of gallows-humour, yet even in the most dire of circumstances you'll find people making jokes. His example was of a guy on death row, but you only have to visit a friend in hospital to see it first hand.
I guess it depends if the jokes are functional, thereby making them essential to the character or situation.
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Thanks Colin.
I think the problem lies with balance, and that the events of the story are probably not that funny on a wider scale. There are a lot of dark scenes, followed by some jaunty ones, and the particular agent I'm dealing with thinks the novel will work better if I just choose a side - dark or funny. He thinks dark suits it much better, and seeing as another two agents also mentioned the same thing, it leaves me with the thought of revision.
I have had to sit and think where I want the story to go (its a trilogy) and truth be told, it is intended to get darker and darker...so the earlier humour might not work so well. The novel is 'top ended' with gags, then halfway through, the humour dries up completely in all the drama. The agent was pointing this out.
Have I answered my own question?
JB
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I'm sure Colin's right, but is it possibly a case that there isn't enough comedy, rather than it should go? If it doesn't happen often enough - is too subtle - to keep people tuned to catch the humorous edge to the novel's voice all the time, then they're not tuned in to hear the jokes when they happen.
Not sure that makes sense: try this example. Very different genre, but I read Mary Wesley's first without realising it was supposed to be a very black comedy, and just found it a bit pointlessly miserable. Only when I'd read the next two, which were a bit warmer and more broadly humorous, did I go back to number one. Being tuned into her kind of humour, all the miserablenesses were suddenly wincingly funny.
Editors' reactions to something that doesn't work is usually to cut it. But very often, when I haven't pulled something off - scene, character, dramatic event, passionate thought - I hear my tutor's voice saying, 'I think you need either less, or more.'
Emma
<Added>
We cross-posted, JB. Yours sounds like the right answer to me.
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I think you have.
Remember the Spitting Image version of Sting's "Every Step You Take"? That was written by a couple of fans who took the song and applied it to political leaders but it was dotted with jokes. Spitting Image phoned them, asked them to remove the jokes and resubmit. It ended up with Sting re-recording it for the show, and it became one of the most memorable sketches.
<Added>
that "I think you have" was in answer to JBs question - just in case anyone got confused.
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Gracias Emma. Great advice as ever.
I think it's called 'smarting off' and is very common in new writers. I started out tackling a huge theme, hoping to make light of it...and then the theme got its revenge and sucked me down into it. Im assured the writing is great...but well, I think the humour became a little left behind and is now superfluous. The MC's story isn't a laugh a minute, and I want this to work like you wouldn't believe, so I'm going to keep the original, but attempt a 'joyless' redux. See what happens.
JB
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Will everyone please stop cross posting? Things are confusing enough!!! :)
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I've sometimes managed to cut some event/voice/style I really, really liked which didn't have a place in a novel by giving it its own short story...
Emma
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Yes, there is that option. I guess I'm just curious to see what happens when I zero the slapstick now. I mean, it will still be slightly tongue in cheek, and I detect that that isn't the problem. It's the outright gags that no one seems to like, the miserable sods. But, progress is progress, and if I must bow to the wishes of the literati for this book to see the light of day, so be it. I suppose I can always sneak out my own parody later, hey?
JB
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Or make it all comic - it seems to be the mixture they can't handle.
Emma
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Hi JB - Isn't it horrible when you try to write something funny and people just look at it and say "I don't get it"... Exasperating. I've written comedy sketches for stage performances, and seen people read them with absolute disdain ("What's funny about this ?"), and yet when they finally do the sketch on stage (after much explanation) then all the laughs have come from the audience exactly where I expected them.
Not every time, I admit, but more often than not so far. (crosses fingers).
I find mixing comedy and drama in prose to be incredibly difficult...
In a drama your characters can say funny things, and occasionally funny things can happen to them, without losing the overall dramatic feel. But if the narrator or authorial voice starts making gags, and making light of everything, and slipping in smart remarks, and the whole tone shifts just once, it's very difficult to get back to the drama again.
You have to dissect your text and figure out what kind[/i[ of "humour" you have inserted into the novel. Is the situation humorous ? Or, is your narration humorous ? Are your plots and situations inherently funny ? Do the characters say funny things ? Do they say things that are funny because they are smart wisecracking guys and everyone around them laughs, or do they say things that are funny to the reader but the character thinks they are perfectly normal ? (apparently this is the difference between US and UK sitcoms).
Once you've figured out these elements, take a look and see which parts of your text are always dramatic and never knowingly funny. (Serious narration ? Serious theme ? Serious plot ? etc).
Do some components of your writing shift from humorous to serious and back again ?
Then see how all these elements mesh together. Is there an obvious scheme which makes sense to you and therefore the readers ?
If what you have done makes perfect sense to you, and you have thought about all these issues and figured out how you want to mix the humour and the drama; if what you're doing style-wise is planned and deliberate, and you've seen it done like that in novels before or alternatively NEVER seen it done and want to try it; if you know exactly what you are doing, and that is exactly the kind of book you want to write - then changing the tone to suit your reviewers is a waste of time as it will not have your heart and soul in it.
But if you just find that you have got carried away with hilarious quips for your characters, without thinking the consequences through for characterisation and tone and genre, all of which is far too easy to do when you're having fun, then maybe your reviewers have a point and you need to listen to what they have to say and do some rewriting. Whether that means upping or downing the comedy content is something only you can decide.
Hope that helps,
-- Griff
<Added>
Bugger. One square bracket the wrong way round and look what happens to my formatting.
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Thanks guys.
Griff - I think the book starts as a comedy and then quickly dips into something else. The strain of satire in the novel is fine (I'm told) but the humour becomes somewhat of an add on in later chapters, and it comes across that I wasn't sure what kind of book I wanted to write. Thing is, due to the theme, genre and nature of the book, I can certainly see how it will work much better as an out and out dark fantasy that's a tad satirical in places, rather than a comedy.
While I was writing it and uploading here, a couple of WWrders made comments about the potential dangers between the 'drama' and the 'comedy', so this hasn't come as a terrific shock. A couple of my returned submissions also queried why I had chosen to 'dilute' what in all fairness is an epic tale with 'slapstick'.
Comedy is extremely hard to write, but I think my Terry Pratchett and Douglas Adams influences came through, and 'bucked' the story. My story isn't all that 'funny' when one looks over the whole cloth, so I'm going to revise it - but all these points you've made will help me do that. It shouldn't take too long, hopefully. Dinding out what I'm going to substitute the humour with should be interesting.
JB
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