Hi,

Blame me for not paying attention at school, but I have a simple grammatical question for the experts:

Does the adjective go before the verb, or afterwards, or doesn't it matter? I.e. which of these is correct:

1. He ran quickly home
2. He quickly ran home
3. Quickly, he ran home
4. He ran home quickly

I realise the split-infinitive rule about "boldly going where no man has gone before", but I thought that only applied to the verb "to go".

A similar question applies to the word "said", i.e.

"stop winking at me," said Nahed.
"or I'll slap you," Nahed said.

Any help would be gratefully received ,

Thanks,
Nigel

Hi there.. well actually it's an adverb (ie describing the verb ).. and you can, as far as I know put it where you like.. each has a subtle difference,, but I would say usually close to the verb..

hope this helps..(the beauty of English language isn't it)

Ellie

You think your education was bad? I can't even define adjectives or verbs.

IB,

Join the club - it's an adverb, as Ellenna has pointed out. An adjective must apply to a 'jective' then?

<Added>

P.S. Thanks for the advice Ellie (how strange, the heroine of my current novel is called Ellie...)

Hi Nigel --

As someone else has said (maybe Ellie? I can't remember without looking back!). Very often word order simply depends on what feels right for the sense you are trying to convey.

Now there are some adjectives that do follow the verb, but, as a native speaker, you would pretty much know these without thinking about it. In fact, I was trying to remember an example for you, but I can't!!! I used to teach English, and to be honest, I would have to research the books!!! (It is conceivable that I am confusing languages, but I am fairly certain that this is the case in English.)

Anne Marie

Nigel,

Here I was reading your query with the utmost of seriousness until I got down to the 'Nahed said' part...I laughed so loudly and so suddenly that I startled myself (which made me laugh harder). Thanks for that Nigel (if only there was a smiley of a slapped face to add to that one...)

I think Ellie answered your question well. I think also that if you have lots of choice of how to construct a sentence then you have to go with what sounds right in the piece of narrative.

He ate his food ravenously
Ravenously, he ate his food
He ravenously ate his food

The second one to me sounds very powerful in a poetic context but the first one would sound better in a narrative (in my opinion). But as Ellie said, that's the beauty of the English language is that you have that choice.

Now as far as 'Nahed said' or 'said Nahed' I find that I like to chop and change these to give a bit of variety when writing a long piece of dialogue.

I'm quite disappointed that your heroine isn't called Nahed, Nigel. I'm quite disappointed that no heroine is likely to ever be called Nahed...oh well, I'm still keeping me name.

Nahed )







<Added>

that's :0)

This may not answer your question but hopefully it will be of some help. The general opinion is… don’t use adverbs (or adjectives for that matter) at all unless they are unavoidable. Adverbs qualify verbs and adjectives qualify nouns. It is preferable to find a stronger verb or noun than to prop up a weak one. In your example I would say there are umpteen alternative verbs which convey his haste without needing an adverb: hurried, sprinted, hastened, rushed.

If you do need to use an adverb then I would suggest you test all the alternatives by reading them out aloud and try jiggling with the punctuation. For instance:

She slowly poured the tea.
She poured the tea, slowly.

The first one suggests that she is simply moving slowly. The second implies that there is an unspoken reason for her slowness – maybe there is something on her mind...

As for your second question… I’ve been told this by teachers of creative writing and by agents, I’ve read it in countless books and I believe it from my own reading experience:

He said/she said/Nahed said… is almost subliminal and the reader, while registering who is speaking, doesn’t even see it.

Said he/said she/said Nahed… is out-dated and intrudes into the flow of the dialogue.

Dee.

Dee,

I've also read about she said/he said/Nahed said being the most natural of 'said's and barely noticeable by the reader within a story. But saying that, I find that when I'm going over my own work I find that I'm a little peeved with too much of the she said/he said/Nahed said. I try not to use he/she/Nahed said unless it's absolutely critical to of course inform the reader who it is that is speaking, so it's not as if they're dotted all over the story. So that's when I vary to the said Nahed - I never write said he/she and I find it works much better. Shame it's outdated...don't think I'll stop using it though (unless they tell me to for it to be published ).

As an aside, the other thing I read somewhere, can't remember where - is to avoid things like:

'Where are you going?' she said, suspiciously.

'I'm out of breath!' she said, breathlessly.

Your dialogue and narrative should be able to convey that she is suspicious and she's clearly out of breath as she just said she was.

Nahed

Damned right, Nahed. Dialogue should never have to be explained. I’ve read everything you’ve uploaded and I don’t think you have a problem with your dialogue.

Readers can generally go a long way through a dialogue without losing the thread of who is saying what, especially if the dialogue itself helps them. Dropping in the other person’s name, for instance, can locate the flow. I think many new writers make the mistake of either putting in too many ‘he said/she said’ clingons, so they become irritating, or they don’t use enough. There’s nothing worse, I think, than having to backtrack up a page of dialogue to work out who said what. (OK there are lots of worse things! You know what I mean.)

Cheers
Dee
x

Nigel

Have to say, I'm with Dee (and Wordy, of course) on this!

Go through you're work and, as a first edit, red-line every adverb and adjective - and only put them back if they are essential, if they tell you something you can't convey in some other way.

And on the same track - avoid lists of adjectives; they can destroy a smooth read.

The long, dusty, winding, dirt track that took us towards the multi-storeyed, red-brick, Victorian facade sort of grates, doesn't it!

And splitting infinitives? Do it if it sounds right - especially in dialogue. The "don't split the infinitive" rule comes from Latin - where you couldn't split one, because the infinitive of a verb (our 'to go', for example)is a single word! (I'll leave it there before someone starts asking awkward questions!)

John

No no, John... do go on...

Thanks for your help everyone.

I must confess, I've methodically, reluctantly and painstakingly weaned myself off the over-usage of adverbs and adjectives, and my writing is better because of it.

Thanks,
Nigel

PS to Nahed - I reckon you're far more likely to see a book with a hero/heroine with your name than I am - in all the books I've ever read, 'Nigel' tends to be reserved for nerds, bankmanagers and civil servants with annoying nasal drones

OK, names aside, one very salutary lesson (and believe me I’ve done it!) is to delete every – and I mean every – adverb and adjective from your story. Then read through it. Each time you come to a verb or a noun which doesn’t convey exactly what you mean, find a better one. Check your dictionary, go through your thesaurus (if you don’t own one go away and don’t come back until you do!) and only then, if you can’t find one that fits, use an adverb or an adjective.

I have to say this is more relevant to adverbs. There is almost always a suitable verb but some nouns need adjectives. For instance… someone tell me how else to describe brown eyes without using an adjective? But they need to be used in moderation: ‘big melting chocolate glossy chestnut brown eyes’ is maybe stepping into yeurck territory… doncha think?

ee.

It is nonsense to suggest that every adverb and adjective needs to be deleted and only those 'essential' ones be 'put back'.

What does 'essential' mean in this context?

Adjectives and adverbs provide much of the colour and texture in good writing and it is far better for a writer to develop an ability to use all and any words to express what they want to say in order to interest and hold the readers. Sure, in the correcting, editing, re-reading, and polishing stages it will become evident that changes might improve the work.

There is a real risk that anyone new to writing might adopt a 'no adverbs and no adjective approach' in their work, thus inhibiting real creative talent. Write from the heart amd continue to write. The ability to discern the difference between 'good' and 'poor' writing develops and , hopefully, a style will emerge. If this style includes quite a few adjectives and adverbs, so be it.

Len

Dee....

I don't know about yeurk...but I suddenly got a craving for cadbury's fruit and nut...How about fruit and nut brown eyes?

P.S to Nigel:
I knew a Nigel in primary school and he was lovely. Must say though, I've not come across another Nigel since. I can't help singing the song...we're only making plans for...Nigel...we only want whats best...for him. You probably hate that song right?