You can comment on any other character’s state as perceived by the viewpoint character. And you don’t necessarily need to say A noticed, or whatever, unless it’s been a long while since you mentioned A by name.

This sums it up beautifully.

One of the things that surprises non-writers is when I say that voice, PoV, and 1st/3rd person are the first and the most important decisions you ever have to make about how to write a novel, once you've decided what to write. You really can't start till you've made them. It's not surprising that it takes so much unpicking.

Casey, if you're having overwriting picked up, it may not be that it's not good writing of itself, but that style isn't appropriate to the character and situation at that moment. If you had a very flamboyant character who uses florid language and sees everything terribly dramatically, it would read as good characterisation; a shy, practical type would seem overwritten if you gave them the same words. Equally, a character in a car chase wouldn't be distracted into thinking about the scenery they're chasing through; too much flickering sunlight or lavish meadow flowers would seem overwritten, though they would have done nicely for a lovers' picnic.

Anyone who's floundering in this stuff might want to try an exercise:

Imagine a very short encounter between two people: across the supermarket checkout or in a club, or one that you're working on anyway.

First write the scene from a neutral-observer's point of view, who describes the action with no opinions about it, and no access to the characters' thoughts.

Then write it in first person from the point-of-view and the voice of character A, so that all we know about the other is what A sees and thinks and choses to tell us.

Then do the same from B's point of view and in their voice, but in third person. Still all we know about the scene is what B sees and thinks and chooses to tell us.

Finally, go back to a neutral third person narrator, but this narrator is omniscient. They can see everything, and have access to A's and to B's thoughts/observations whenever they like, though they have no opinions of their own. You have to chose the best things show and the best view to show it from it at any one point. This also involves controlling the moves into and out of A's and B's PoV and voice in such a way that the reader always knows exactly where they, the reader, are.

Emma

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tsk! the best things to show

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oh dear! Blame the hangover. try this:

For each moment in the scene, you have to chose the best/most important things to show and the best view to show them from.

That looks like an excellent excercise, Emma, thanks.

You've also given me another angle on overwriting.

Casey

the best view to show them from.

Very true.

If, for instance, something is happening to A, it might be more interesting to write the scene from H’s POV to show how A would be seen to be reacting to what is happening and, at the same time, describe H’s feelings about what A is experiencing.

Does that make sense?

Dee

Perfect sense
I've uploaded that piece now, Dee - any thoughts appreciated.

Casey

Here's an easy to follow essay on POV:

http://www.sfwriter.com/ow07.htm

Terry

Yes, that's very helpful Terry. Thank you.

DaveB

Cheers, Terry

Do you think it's possible, in a collection of linked short stories, to have one of them in the 1st person? (Rest in limited 3rd.) I don't want the narrator of the 1st person piece to be more important than the other main characters, but I feel that the story loses much of its impact when written in 3rd. I'll upload both versions and if you like you can have a look.

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Oops, can't upload two. No matter.

I'd say there's no reason you can't do that. I've read novels where the same character turns up in first, in third, and in someone else's narration. Just make sure the opening sentence of each section makes it very clear to the reader very quickly who's what.

Emma

Thanks Emma.