Hi Cath,

Not sure how far you've got with this but...

I think the problem could be Tash's character arc and not lack of plot. Perhaps her growth through the story isn't shown strongly enough.

I use this Character Arc after I've written the story. It's a great way to see if the characters are tested and change through the story, plus I've found the plot (ways to test/show character) develops from it too!

The Character Arc
1. Limited Awareness (of problem/internal conflict)
2. Increased Awareness
3. Reluctance to Change
4. Overcoming
5. Committing
6. Experimenting
7. Preparing
8. Big Change
9. Consequences
10. Rededication
11. Final Attempt
12. Mastery (of problem)


What do you think?

Good luck with the edit.

Dawn

Dawn
That's very helpful, your character arc...can I ask, did you come up with this yourself, or is it a recognised sequence? I'm just interested.

Hi Caroline,

I think it's a standard recognised sequence, I got it from a screenwriters book ages ago.
Here it is in full:-

1. Limited awareness of inner conflict blocking their life.
2. Increased awareness of inner conflict blocking their life.
3. Reluctance to change
4. Overcoming reluctance
5. Committing to change
6. Experimenting with first change.
7. Preparing for big change
8. Attempting big change
9. Consequences of the attempt (improvements & setbacks)
10. Rededication to change
11. A final attempt at big change.
12. Final Mastery of the problem.

All the best,
Dawn

Thanks, Friday. I haven't started yet. I'm house-sitting and don't have my novel here!

Cath

Hi Cath

Sorry to hear you are facing this - it is very hard to re-write a book that feels so 'complete' and that has had such good feedback (I loved it, too!)

However, an agent (who didn't take me on, sadly) gave me lots of encouragement about my manuscript last year, and also told me it needed to be a 'bigger book'.

Now, I don't plan, or plot, I just write, and then try and sort it out after. Talk of character arcs and conflict and rules of plotting leaves me cold. Not to say that I don't agree with it all being sound advice, I just can't seem to connect it to my own writing. It dries up my creativity like a large kleenex (sorry, what a vile image).

I had no idea what the agent meant by 'bigger book'. What was a bigger idea, what was a bigger book? Help! I went back and looked at places where my minor characters could be deveoloped. I added a sub-plot. I added scenes which allowed my characters to 'hang out' together, have conversations. I did this with my usual free-writing style and found something magical - I had written a bigger book! I love the new scenes that I've added, they really seem to develop the characters, make them more real, more-rounded. I also feel that the themes of the book are better realised, the resolution (of the original, main plotline) is more satisfying, and the book, is, yes damn it - bigger!

I am just starting to submit the new version and it still may not be publishable, but I just wanted to say that it is possible to not only survive an unwanted rewrite, but to be really, really, happy with the result.

Hope this helps a little.
JennyWren x

hi cath

im with jennywren on this one. thoughts of writing to some list of checkboxes that need to be ticked off leave me cold too, good advice though it may be. my agent suggested to me that my novel needed making 'fuller'. i did the same as jennywren: added scenes, made more obvious the development of characters' traits, spoke more about the surroundings and environment. actually, i think that's a good point. sometimes, nay - all the time - having a really pinned down sense of place makes the book more plausible and hence more 'real', and bigger. makes the characters less ephemeral and more weighty.

there was a thread recently about how there were two types of editors: the taker-outters and the putter-inners. im the latter and suspect you may be too. the thread spoke of editing as a putter-inner to be 'adding muscle and sinew' to the novel - and muscle makes you bigger. it might be worth checking out.

I think that might have been me, talking about muscle and sinew, and yes, perhaps that is the case here. I'm an adder too, but not usually to plot. The drive of a plot can be emotion as much as action (who needs a car chase when there's a broken heart to worry about?) and that's very much something that you can more easily develop once you've got the bones of the plot screwed together, as you have.

I think a lot of that 'story-arc' thinking is imposed afterwards, when people try to work out what works in something that clearly does work in a great story. And then aspiring writers start from it, instead of realising that you can only see these things after the finish. And boy are the stories written to the formula formulaic (and if that's how aspiring scriptwriters are trained to think, dare I say it, that explains why a lot of films are... never mind).

Emma

The story arc stuff also left me cold! Far too much to be thinking about (rather than writing! )

But I did like the 'W' stuff at the beginning of this thread. I tend to work by doing 'flexible' plotting, in that I know where I want to get to and sketch the in between bits in. But I often change it all as I go along. So the 'W' stuff helps for those moments when I've ground to a halt, so I can ask myself where I need to go.

So can I just ask my questions again because I'd really like to know peoples' views and I think they got a bit lost!!!

First, should we worry about spacing all points of the 'W' evenly throughout the book? Or could the plot follow a different pace? I'm thinking of film scripts in comparison where the AB bit happens in the first ten minutes and the DE bit happens in the last ten minutes. Also, when I looked at my plot, I realised that two of the points were happening on top of each other. Does it depend on how well a book is written for this sort of plot structure to work, or is it really a bad idea from the start? What are others' views on this?

cheers!!

S

Sorry, Sarah, I've been a bit off-kilter this week, and missed your question. Glad you brought it up again.

Short answer is, no, I don’t think you need to space them evenly. I tend to use a variation on the W, which is a wave formation. The main thread goes through the story in waves, with the minor threads following their own smaller waves. Occasionally one of them will heave up a larger than normal wave. Sometimes – hopefully towards the end – they peak together, resulting in a huge wave.

The troughs between the waves need to be there to give the reader breathing space, and to build up the impetus for the next wave. What you need to concentrate on, though, is avoiding too much flat calm. Long periods of no waves at all means your story isn’t moving, and you readers will stop surfing.

Think I've been in the sun too long…

Dee

Character Arc - I wasn't suggesting Cath (or anyone) write from steps 1-12!!! As Tash and Kev has already been written, I was suggesting Cath look at Tash's journey to see if she grows/changes through the story, as this could be why she has received the feedback from publishers to add more plot when it could be a character problem.

Thanks for that Dee. I must say I like your new theory of surfing your way to the end of the novel!!

Dawn/Friday - I'm glad you said that. I was a bit worried we were in the presence of a superhuman!! You are right, it does make a good check afterwards, but probably not (for me anyway) in the planning stage.

S

Tee-hee -

Superhuman? Well, I wasn't going to say anything but...

Seriously, I do think we get hung up on structure and see it as the evil magic killer or something. When the magic begins and ends with the words on the page and nothing can change that.

Okay, stepping off my plotting, pro-structure soap box and going into the garden with my laptop and *cough* Watermelon Bacardi Breezer!

Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

p.s. Dee always talks sense, she's fab!

Why thank you, Dawn! I think you're fab too… x

We’re having a great evening. Our company has launched a new range of organic beers today and we’ve got free samples… yummy!



ps - any news on Rio?

Dee and Friday,


thanks for posting the W plot idea and the character Arc. I came up with an idea for a story a while ago but I was having problems turning it into a viable novel (it was pretty abstract idea). But I've done some doodling now based on what you posted and it's all coming together lovely!

thanks!

emma

Glad to be of help...