Hi everyone,

When expressing characters' thoughts, I do it two ways:

a) Not him again, thought Rachel, as she walked onto the platform.
or
b) Not him again. Rachel walked onto the platform.

I am never quite confident about using method b), but don't feel it reads well to keep saying 'she thought' every time I want to express what the character is feeling.

Is method b) acceptable, even though I am writing in the third person?

Any view appreciated.Thanks.

Sammy

Hi Sammy

I reckon you should put it in italics and use b). I find it pacier and more dramatic like that. In fact, while we’re on it I might as well go off on one a little and say, do you need to tell us that Rachel walks onto a platform. You should show us, the platform, Rachel, her mood (you already started that with the thought), the guy she is going “Uh-oh” about. All that stuff would be far more dramatic and engaging if it’s shown to us.

Nothing wrong with a) its just a bit pedestrian compared to b) I think, and really undermines any drama that is created by whatever encounter she is about to have/avoid.

To be honest Sammy I’m no expert so it’s not like I know what I’m on about really. I just prefer to think on how we can approach the narrative as writers, how we can change it, if we should. How many POV should we have, how many MC’s? All these things are to be considered, but I’d say the most important underlying factor is to first try and show not tell. Once we get there, we can have fun experimenting with all sorts of stuff, but if the reader is confused then its over before we’ve even started. So, if you just left it as b) as it is above, I’m afraid you hit the first hurdle, coz it doesn’t make sense and is confusing to the reader. But a) like I say is pedestrian. Don’t get me wrong, I am constantly putting pedestrian stuff in my work and it bugs the hell out of me, coz it’s only through lack of imagination that I let it go. It’s my worst writing vice I think and I know I have about 1% chance of getting published until I sort it out.

Anyone else agree/disagree? I admit I am probably a bit off the mark/out of my depth perhaps here so...

Sammy, I think b) is fine, if it's established already that we're in Rachel's thoughts. As Davy says, at the moment it's not clear without a 'thought' or something. a) is actually okay, I think, because 'thought' isn't as invisible as 'said' but it's not too bad. Or (sorry to borrow your character) you could do it something like this:

The sun had clouded over. Rachel went into the station and saw it was already full of bored and boring people. And not him again! That was the last straw. She walked onto the platform.

The first sentence is neutral, but by making the second sentence obviously Rachel's opinion, you've moved the reader into her head, and we then naturally read the direct thought as being hers.

I find it very helpful to make sure I know exactly how far I (and the reader) are inside someone's head at any point, because if I'm clear about how far, and so write it that way, then the reader usually stays clear too. Jane Austen is the absolute master (mistress?) of 3rd person PoV shifts.

Personally I only use italics for someone remembering what someone else said in the past, otherwise things get confusing, but then I'm very easily confused.

Emma

Thanks guys, you've both given me a lot to think about.

Sammy

No worries Sammy!

Just want to say, considering Emma is a pro I’d definitely bow to that! The example is perfect really, that’s what I was driving at, the drama of seeing the guy is meshed with the everyday drudgery of the station, which is identified by showing not telling. Also, and sorry to be a creep Emma, but I think that penultimate paragraph says a whole lot more than my entire post.

Thanks EmmaD, that really gives me something to think about.

As for the italics, I’m probably talking rubbish, so maybe you shouldn’t use them for present thoughts, but I find it works.

Or that I THINK it works, but there’s only one of us here with a book coming out on a major publisher so I’m quite possibly wrong!!!

Davy, I'm blushing all over. I've definitely seen italics used for thoughts as you do, so it's a matter of taste, and perhaps - come publication - the publisher's house style.

Sammy, the story I've got in the archive at the moment - 'Russian Tea' - began life as an exercise in shifting PoV between two characters, as I'd always written entirely inside one character's head before that. As so often, having let go of the outcome of a 'good' story by thinking of it purely as an exercise, the result was better than I'd expected. If you want to decide if I'm talking crap (perfectly possible), have a look.

http://www.writewords.org.uk/archive/12696.asp

Emma

Sammy

Liesl posted a really good link which gives advice about this kind of territory, quite inspiring. I can't do links in posts but if you're interested Liesl's link is called 'Writing Tips #2' and it's under 'older posts' in the Flash II forum.

David if you're reading could we get Liesl's post transferred across to Technique Forum, cos it's attracted a lot of praise from WW'ers? with her permish of course...

Best

Pete

Pete, if you know where it is, you could copy-and-paste with Liesl's permish

Emma

Sammy

OK here's the link itself. All thanks are due to the author and to Liesl for posting it:

http://www.writersdigest.com/articles/ingram_intruder.asp

Pete

<Added>

Hey that works!

Thanks Pete

I've had a quick look at Liesl's link, which I will re-read later - very interesting. Here's me trying to avoid 'she thought' and now I realise that 'she looked', 'she noticed' and a plethora of other verbs can be eliminated to convey my character's thoughts in a much tighter, more compelling way.

I'm beginning to realise I've got a lot more to learn than I thought!!

Sammy