This has probably been covered before but i am going to ask it anyway. Up until recently i have never really thought of writing a novel, prefering to stick to the safer grounds of short stories and flash fiction.

How much planning does a novel need? When do you stop planning and start writing? Can you over plan?

Does anyone have any suggestion, all welcome!

Thanks for reading

Jules

Novels need a lot of time spent on them, planning, research and writing.

If you have a rough idea of your plot and characters, get them down on paper/Word doc, and then fill in the details.

Everyone works differently, so you need to find what works for you, but once you have the basics down, you can do your research and add to it.

I tend to do my planning as I'm writing - if you get what I mean - ideas come to me and I write them down, then plan around it.

Ohter people wrork differently, so go with what feels right.

Kat



<Added>

tut tut, that's what I get for rushing. I meant other, and work

Kat

Jules, I think this is a piece-of-string question (as in how-long-is-a-) but I do think the moment when you stop planning is when you're so full of ideas and characters and words and the whole world that the pot boils over and onto the page. In other words, it's worth keeping the lid clamped on as long as possible.

How you get to that point is the harder question. Some people just send their characters out into the world and see what happens, others (like me) need some idea of roughly what direction they start off in, and where they'll end up, emotionally if not physically, even if the route from A to Z isn't clearly mapped out. Some people think and plan in chapters from the beginning, with a rough mini-route of action and feeling within each one, others feel the big arc of the whole story and put in a break when they get to a point that seems to want one. It's also worth thinking about how the abstract ideas - if you're examining what happens when people are betrayed, say - appear in the different characters and in the different plots and subplots. Laying the different plot strands out side by side also makes sure you don't just let one disappear for several chapters, which is easy to do. It's not just plot either: before you start writing or suddenly when you realise you need to, you might draw maps of how the different houses and so on relate to each other, and family trees and spider diagrams of how people are related to and feel about to each other. You might make a list of how all the characters feel about a particular thing, or react to an event. I also do tables of things like how old everybody is at what date; you need to know things like the mum's teenage music was, and you might as well not re-invent the wheel each time. With a tight cast and a neat little plot you can carry quite a lot of this stuff in your head, but writing it down all helps you to think it out, even if you never refer to some of the notes again.

Whatever you plan, do it in pencil, mentally if not physically, as you must be able to follow your nose; all sorts of good things that you weren't expecting, not least while you're researching something completely different, need to be able to climb on board. And other brilliant ideas fall away as you write. I don't think you can over-plan if you're completely willing to let this happen, but if you feel something is wrong, but you can't make it right because it doesn't fit the plan, then you've got too wedded to the plan. The other alarm signal is if you suspect that you're planning and planning to avoid tackling that empty Page One...

Emma

I think Emma is right in that it's whatever works for you. I have to admit I don't plan at all - and only ever have a vague outline of what might (and I stress "might") happen to my characters in a novel. I tend to get a scene in my head (or in my dreams) and start there. Sometimes I have a key idea for the ending when I'm at the beginning and write it down (not always writing scenes in any particular order), but it always seems to change by the time I get there, depending on what the characters are most likely to do.

So you can do it "off the cuff" if that's your way, but you'll need to edit (as everyone needs to do) once the first draft is down on paper. For me, I find that the joy of novel writing is that I don't know where the characters and I are going, but the excitement comes in the thrill of the journey and discovery (which actually is a huge contrast to the rest of my life which is, believe me, very carefully planned!!)

So, go for it the way that most suits you, and enjoy!

)

A
xxx

Personally, I don't understand writers who don't plan their novels before they begin them, any more than I understand freestyle jazz. I think writing is akin to sculpture - you start off with the rough clay (your imagination) a few handy shaping tools (your skill) and hopefully a wire model (your plot).

I always begin when I have a rough idea of what I'm building, as I think it really shows when you don't. It's like a road (yes, another metaphor) - if you don't know where you're going, you risk getting lost...or, as one person recently put it, if you aim at nothing, that's usually what you hit.

I write because I already have most of the full story - beginning, middle and end - in mind. There is nothing more frustrating than getting halfway through a book you're writing, and then realise you're writing something totally different all of a sudden. Believe me, you'll just make hellish work in editing for yourself. See the road. See the sculpture, then carve it and travel it.

JB

A wise writing teacher said to me, 'The only thing you must get right before you start is the structure. Everything else you can change as you go, but if you have to change the structure, it changes everything so much you might as well start from the beginning again.'

Emma

An agent I know says "If the structure is wrong, fixing it can be like trying to turn around the QE2"

He encourages all his clients to plan every single detail of the structure. He advises them to draw up a bullet point plan for the whole plot. Then you can see exactly where character motivations are insufficiently compelling, where pace slackens, etc. You need some idea of your characters in advance, certainly the major ones.

I had sort of planned before, but on the fly. Now I am a firm believer in the fundamental importance of a structure that is put in place long before you start to write Chapter One.

There are a few books out there to help you think about structure, as this is the most important thing. One is 'How to Write Damn Good Fiction' by James Frey. Crap title but lots of good advice on dramatic structure. Another is 'Bestseller' by Celia Brayfield. Although both are catering more for the pageturner audience, there are some real gems of advice in each.

Wow guys thanks for the abundance of info and advice. I have to write alot of structured essays and reports in the real world, so realise how good a plan can be. But sometimes i worry that i tend to overplan and might as Emma said forget the writing part.....

Thanks

JX

I don’t plot. I have my characters. I give them a setting. I know how they got to where the story starts and I know how it will end. What happens in between is a white-knuckle ride.

I'm not saying this is the best way – I'm not even convinced it’s the best way for me - just that it’s the only way I can write at the moment. Sometimes it’s terrifying, like the time when I had my four main characters sitting round a kitchen table for weeks and couldn’t think how to move them on. But mostly it’s exhilarating as the characters move the plot in unexpected directions.

I think we all need to find our own best method. What works for JB, for instance, doesn’t work for me (much as I wish it would). That doesn’t mean that either method is right or wrong.

Jules, I’d say try plotting first. If you find you’ve seamlessly wandered into writing, keep going and see what happens. The critical factor for me is that I know how the story will end for each character, and the challenge is to make sure they get there. Without that factor, the story would just drift aimlessly into mediocrity.

Dee

My first attempt at a novel I had no plan and no idea how to go about it. I finished it but it was 20,000 too short.
The next one I worked on the character, then a quick plot outline and went on to a chapter outline. You don't have to keep rigidly to it, but it does give you a safety net if you start floundering in the middle.
Kat

There are, of course, two trains of thought for this, but I’m a writer that can’t stand planning what I write. It takes away from the natural essence – and beauty – of writing. There’s no fun in planning every single plot point before I’ve written it. There has to be, for me, a sense of wonder and excitement at what I’m writing. A freshness. A newness. A fever-fury of excitement while I'm writing.

As long as I have a rough idea of what’s supposed to be going on in my head, I find it impossible to lose my way. If you know the beginning, middle and thr end of the story, how can you not know what you’re writing?

The whole stream of consciousness thing, the getting into the writing so much, time passes away like seconds, is almost impossible if you’re constantly spot-checking your notes and breaking the flow and consistency of your writing.

Put your fingers on the keyboard and start the journey.

The fun part is not the writing, but the revision of what you’ve written.

And besides, if it's good enough for King, Stevenson, Bradbury and hundreds of other writers, it's certainly good enough for me.

Ste

Everyone has their own method, it's true, but I can't get anyway without planning. I am something of a serial planner though. The first thing I do is to plan out the story on a W graph that I learned about on a Cornerstones course. If it fits on this, then the structure is fairly sound. This is how it works:

The “W” graph of dramatic plot

Think of a W shape.

A is the top left
B is the first point of the W at the bottom
C is the middle of the top
D is the second point at the bottom
E is the top right

So as you draw the W you start at A, move down to B, up to C, down to D and finish on E.

AE – Intent. Protagonist desperately wants to achieve something, or has a problem he must overcome – i.e. beginning to end of story

AB – Barrier. The person and/or situation inhibiting the protagonist from achieving his goal

BC – Attempts to overcome. The protagonist attempts several times to overcome the barrier and achieve his goal. It often works well for there to be three definite attempts, with things becoming progressively worse with each one. Cause and effect should take us logically from one incident to the next. Reversals occur.

C – High point. It looks as if the protagonist is going to achieve his intent. Things look good at this point.

CD – Major rug pulling/catastrophe. The protagonist plunges to the lowest point of action. Success now seems completely out of his grasp. This is his darkest hour.

DE – Resolution. The protagonist may go on and through strength, bravery, intelligence or cunning achieve his intent. Some sort of unexpected, but logical, twist is usually involved.

Sue