Christianity only has one messiah - Jesus. As far as I am aware, Islam has none, and Judaism is still waiting for him to appear. The latter two religions have prophets, of course, but they are not the same as messiahs (and, in fact, Islam regards Jesus as a prophet, rather than a messiah).

Just to clarify the distinction: a prophet is someone who tells people God's message, whereas a messiah is sent by God as a saviour and redeemer.

(I'm not trying to make any points here, just to add information for anyone who is interested.)


Alex

It's a good point Alex. This sounds like an interesting discussion to have with my vicar brother over the Christmas dinner table!

Hi,

I've done the tree so that's one job to cross off the Christmas 'to do' list.

Working in the funeral profession, I had lots of these same conversations with some of my minister friends. They were great actually, especially as I don't really believe in God.

They all, obviously, have this one belief that when they expire, they will definitely meet their maker.

I'm not so sure though, and I find it hard to fathom how they can devote the whole of their life to something that nobody knows for sure exists. Yes they believe 100% that there is a God, but what if they are wrong and when we die, that's it, a big fat nothing. They're going to be pretty pissed off aren't they, there again no, 'cos there wont be anything so they wont know.

I do have this belief that most people who believe in God, do so because they are afraid of dying. They are afraid that when they whizz off this mortal coil, there will be nothing, so the hope that they will go somewhere else gives them something to cling on to and brings them comfort. And that is fine, if it makes them feel better.

Personally I find the whole idea of there being a heaven and a God, a bit chocolate boxy, with visions of angels playing harps etc.

I feel that as long as we are remembered by our loved ones, we will never truly die. I read something once that has stayed with me, it said 'you only cease to exist if you are forgotten', which I thought was lovely.

Kat

<Added>

Phew, that's a bit deep for a monday afternoon!

If the believers are right, then it's going to be the agnostics and atheists who are pissed off. Anyone else familiar with Rowan Atkinson's "Devil" sketch on the "Live in Belfast" album? ("Atheists, are you here? You must be feeling a right bunch of charlies.")

On the other hand, if there really isn't anything, then believers won't have wasted their time, because they will still have lived their lives to their best ability and knowledge. (Assuming, of course, that they really have. Self-serving religious hypocrites don't get much shrift even within Christianity, as Jesus' admonishments of the Pharisees showed.)


Alex

I wasn't saying that fate is the same as destiny, or that faith is either of these - just stating that the idea of fate and destiny are an integral part of religion, and religion is an integral part of civilisation. Alex, thanks for the clarification over messiah and prophet.

As for 'not existing unless remembered' argument, I think that strays into 'if a tree falls down in a forest, and nobody is around to hear it, does it still make a sound?' territory. Personally, I feel like I know there is more to existence than just this life, and to me the idea of people just dying and rotting is preposterous. Einstein proved energy doesn't die, only transmutes, and human beings are just atoms (i.e energy) vibrating at different frequencies, comprising mass - just like everything else in the universe.

I don't only believe it on scientific grounds, but that is where my faith lies - something that has nothing to do with religion. Having said that, I was raised to believe in reincarnation, so how much of it is just my own indoctrination, I'll probably never know. I do know that, ten years ago, when I stopped breathing for five minutes, and my lips when blue, I did not 'die' in the conventional sense. Yes, there was a coridoor of rippling light, and a keen awareness that I should return to my body, as my destiny, or purpose had not yet been served.

JB

To clarify the religious point, think of prophets. Prophets speak 'prophecy', information about that yet to come, more than 'God's word'. A preacher does that, a prophet tells the future.

Jesus was prophesised to come and save mankind by dying. The whole of western civilisation is based on the ideal of destiny and fate and prophecy. It is useless to deny that.

JB

I have a close friend who is, unlike myself, a big Christian, C of E. There seem to be advantages other than a secure afterlife, mainly, for her, as a member of the church, especially as she tends to work abroad and it's a good way of getting in touch with a friendly community. She has a good social life with people who are more or less obliged to be helpful to one another. I don't think they believe in harps, etc. and they have these bible study sessions where they discuss knotty theological problems. Another friend, met in China, is a Franciscan monk, and it doesn't seem to hold him back, expcept he is not allowed to marry, to which he is not inclined; in fact, neither of them are. So I think it is a very good thing for single people who have given up on ever getting married.

Sheila

If I meet my maker sooner than I'd like, and it's possible to get in touch with those here on earth, I'll let you all know. I'll add a phantom post to one of your threads or something.

All joking aside, although I don't believe in a God as such, I think there may be something in us existing after death here on earth.

My grandad always told me, that if he could, he'd let me know he was around after he'd died, and I had some really weird stuff going on after his death, so maybe there is somwthing, who knows?

Kat