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  • Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by smudger at 21:31 on 22 September 2005
    Maybe someone can patiently explain to me why we are constantly asked radically to reduce the number of adverbs that occasionally pepper our prose so liberally? OK, facetious question, but I'm really interested to hear from anyone who has an opinion on uses and abuses of adverbs, particularly around dialogue, he asked expectantly.

    smudger
  • Re: Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by FX at 21:47 on 22 September 2005
    Personally, I think the injunction against adverbs is over stated. However, they can be a little like toffees; once you start in on them, there's a danger you won't stop until you've emptied the packet. I think the problem is that, unless you're a policeman ('the defendant was proceeding suspicously, your honour' we don't generally use them in speech, therefore they tend to stick out on the page, which can make your writing look 'literary' and break the spell of a good story.

    That said, I like a well turned adverb and would tend to use them more than the average. I think the reader will extend his indulgence further for the written word than he will for the spoken, and conseqently will not judge a writer pompous for using adverbs as he might a speaker. The trick is to use them sparingly. There's a brilliant lampoon of a beginning writer in an episode of 'Swiss Tony' where she's reading out her opus (a rip-off of Harry Potter) and every action is qualified by an adverb. It's an hysterically funny object lesson in how NOT to do it.

    <Added>

    Why has a smiley appeared where there should be a 'close brackets'?
  • Re: Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by Grinder at 22:02 on 22 September 2005
    I think, adverbs are a sign of weak writing.

    He forcibly but the cup down, and said viciously, “what the hell!”

    “What the hell,” he said, slamming the cup down.

    Although not exactly riveting prose I think the second sentence is better, stronger and tighter.

    Adverbs are designed to modify the verb, instead of picking a strong verb in the first place a weak writer will try and get their point across using an adverb to ‘beef up’ a poor choice. Often, when used in speech attribution, adverbs are not only weakening but they’re completely unnecessary.

    “You can’t be serious,” he said incredulously.

    Why not just

    “You can’t be serious.”

    There’s nothing worse than listening to the converted preach, is there. I'm sorry

    Grinder


    <Added>

    Of course its quite difficult to 'but' a cup down!
  • Re: Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by Dee at 09:11 on 23 September 2005
    Well said, Grinder.

    To me, adverbs are an indication that the writer hasn’t evolved. I think we all start off using them too much, partly because we’re so damned excited to be writing, and partly because we feel we have to explain every little thing.

    So we write: “You can’t be serious,” he said incredulously. for the benefit of the one potential reader who has never used the expression. (good example, Grinder)

    Using adverbs to prop up a weak verb is not only lazy writing, it’s usually exposition.
    She closed the door forcefully is flabby and it’s telling us how she closed the door.
    She slammed the door on the other hand, is tighter and showing us not just how she closed the door but her mood too.

    FX! Great to see you again. Having see some of your work, I can understand why you defend adverbs and hope you don’t think I'm accusing you of laziness! It’s a while since I read any of your work but I don’t remember it being overburdened with them. Perhaps the period style you use is more sympathetic towards them.

    Dee


    <Added>

    She slammed the door on the other hand’ ~ Ouch! I bet that stung a bit…

    ;)
  • Re: Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by Colin-M at 10:16 on 23 September 2005
    Can we have a go at adjectives while we're here? There is a great piece in one of the Adrian Mole books where he does a piece of creative writing and uses the word "majestic" about six times. I nearly choked at a writers group a couple of years ago when someone read out an almost identical piece, about a unicorn on "magestic" wings, with a "magestic" horn and "magestic" something else and flew up (I kid you not) "magestically".

    I heard one lecturer say, to improve a piece of creative writing, underline every adjective. When you're finished, allow yourself to keep only one.

    unless it's "magestic"

    Colin M
  • Re: Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by smudger at 11:04 on 23 September 2005
    I was wondering how long it would be before someone got adjectives in their sights. Are prepositions, nouns and verbs OK?
    smudger
  • Re: Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by Colin-M at 11:08 on 23 September 2005
    Let's hear it for semi-colons; they are the most under used of punctuation marks
  • Re: Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by EmmaD at 12:04 on 23 September 2005
    Colin, I'm with you on semi-colons. Though I don't think you can use them in dialogue.

    The adverb/adjective ban is very, very good for beginners for all the reasons people have given, and then I think is something you move on from naturally, to developing an instinct for only putting them in where they really earn their keep. But I know when I've not been concentrating on my first draft, by the way that each noun is tagged with an adjective, and each verb with an adverb. It also makes the sentences very samey-sounding, plodding, without the sort of fluent pull-and-release of the rhythm that keeps it alive. Reading it aloud often makes that kind of laziness embarrassingly obvious to me.

    Emma
  • Re: Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by Colin-M at 12:12 on 23 September 2005
    People use semi-colons all of the time without realising it. Instead, they use a hyphen - a bit like that. Hyphens are really just brackets, and no one ever considers using a single bracket for a pause ( that sort of thing. It looks stupid.

    I was shocked when I first discovered this. I went through loads of past text and in almost every case, the hyphen - unless it did something like this - could be replaced by a semi-colon.

    Colin
  • Re: Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by bjlangley at 12:27 on 23 September 2005
    I think 'forcibly put' vs 'slammed' is the best example I've seen of why not to use them.

    I do have a thing for the Swifties though, which mostly use adverbs.

    "I don't believe you," Tom said, unbelievingly.

    And some from a website:

    "I like modern painting", said Tom abstractly.

    "This salad dressing has too much vinegar", said Tom acidly.

    "Who is this Tom Swiftie character anyway?" asked Tom unselfconsciously.
  • Re: Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by Colin-M at 12:30 on 23 September 2005
    'Don't slam your cup,' said Tom, standingnexttolee

  • Re: Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by shellgrip at 12:49 on 23 September 2005
    I think you can use semi-colons in conversation, since we use them when we speak. Punctuation is intended to clarify meaning, if you write natural speech you'll inevitably come across a need for semi-colons and colons in the same way you'll need to use commas and full stops. However, this leads us down the well-examined path of how accurately you portray speech. As we all know, real conversation between fluent adults tends to consist of countless false starts, interruptions, poorly phrased sentences and so on; if we 'clean' that lot up then perhaps the need for less common punctuation lessens.

    On the subject of adverbs, I agree that they seem to crop up more commonly in 'early' writing. I can remember (just) doing this when I first started scribbling and I felt that the writing was 'flat' without finding a new way to say 'he said' with each line of dialogue. The writing was flat of course but not through a lack of adverbs!

    Grinder's 'You can't be serious' example is a particularly good one since the sentence itself can only be said incredulously but I've seen countless similar examples.

    FX, we do use adverbs in conversation - 'I'm a bit worried about me car mate, the engine's running really roughly' - hey, that's two in a row Mind you, I think we tend to use simile more frequently - 'the engine's running like a badgers arse'.

    Jon
  • Re: Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by EmmaD at 13:28 on 23 September 2005
    I have a weakness for adverbs when they're a bit of a surprise:

    'Get out of here, you lying bastard,' she said quietly.

    and adjectives:

    'The bell pealed dully'

    But it's another trick that loses impact the more you use it.

    Emma
  • Re: Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by Colin-M at 14:00 on 23 September 2005
    Becuase it's an action that defines the way the dialogue is delivered, wouldn't it be stronger up front?

    quietly, carefully, he explained, "You're a moron."

    Colin

  • Re: Adverbs - don`t you just love/hate* them madly (*delete as applicable)
    by ashlinn at 14:44 on 23 September 2005
    Personally, I don't understand this demonisation of adverbs and adjectives. I think that all the words of the English language; nouns, adjectives, verbs, adverbs, qualifiers, tenses, pronouns, similes, metaphors, alliteration are tools in the tool-kit of the writer, each one designed to do a specific job.

    I agree that inappropriate or excessive use of any of these tools is jarring to the reader and causes him to focus on the writing and diverts him from the message the author wants to convey but this can only be judged within the context. A blanket banning of the use of specific tools in all circumstances is limiting and goes against art. There is no verb, for example, that can replace the adverb in the sentence "He walked slowly to the door."

    Of course you can come up with sentences where the use of an adverb is ridiculous but I'm sure that it's possible to come up with ones where the use of a preposition or a verb is silly.

    I once wrote this sentence in a piece of mine: "Each word was enunciated slowly and distinctly, each one calculated to be a blow to bludgeon hope to death.” In my head, this sentence is reminiscent of the tolling of a funeral bell which is the flavor I want it to have. I am well aware that I have committed several creative writing crimes here, four to be precise; I have used two adverbs, it is in the passive form rather than active, I repeat “each” in the sentence and I overstate my meaning as enunciate means to speak slowly and distinctly. When I tried to rewrite it, the best alternative I came up with was; “She enunciated each word to make them blows to bludgeon hope to death.” which for me is far inferior in resonance. So what to do? Respect the rules or respect my own internal metronome?

    For me, the best writing rule is 'You can do anything you like as long as it works.'
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