"I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again."

Yes, Oscar, I know the feeling. Commas are little devils. Subtle devils.

But today I had one of those blue-sky moments. They're not common, and all the more wonderful when they do happen.

I realised I'm over-using commas. Now, I've removed some from a chapter and feel good about it, because a definitely-there jerkiness has gone from sentences that were meant to have a smooth momentum.

And I often thought other writers were too frugal with them. But no ... it was me.

Well, maybe this is obvious to the more experienced, fair enough, but what could be more enlightening than being aware of a failing through realising it yourself?

I think I should celebrate in some way. Okay, another glass of wine will do.

I've been teaching the Year 6 grammar curriculum, and I must say that I agree with you - if you put a comma in all the 'correct' places, it ruins the flow of the text!!

I don't mean we should invent our own puncuation rules, but commas are definitely overused unnecessarily.

I do agree that when you're trying to write expressively then "correct" is by no means the same as "right" - and right should always win.

On the other hand, I see endless, endless essays - perhaps the majority - where they don't use enough of them to articulate the meaning of what they're trying to say. Commas are about units of meaning with the sentence, and they matter so much.

I actually had one student who said that she used to use commas a lot, but saw others not using them and thought she was being "old-fashioned", and so tried to train herself out of it.

As soon as I got her to read her sentences aloud, of course, her brain had to make sense out of the sentence in order to speak it - to understand the units of meaning - and so she could feel where they ought to go.

And I see it in creative writing too: students leave out commas where they should put them in quite as often as they put them in where they're either incorrect or wrong.

A brilliant quote I've read just this morning, in a photography magazine: the photographer's talking about straightening horizons being one of those things that you need to do even though most viewers wouldn't be aware of the un-straightness in the orgiinal, and he quotes his English-teacher partner's wife: getting the commas wrong is like not dusting the room and people may not notice the dust, but the whole room seems muted and unkempt.

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I had one CW student who said he used short sentences in order to avoid using commas because "they're old-fashioned".

I nearly wept.

And yes, his prose was every bit as pedestrian and impoverished as you'd expect.

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And yes, I have blogged about it

http://emmadarwin.typepad.com/thisitchofwriting/2012/06/commas.html

Thanks, Emma,
A 'unit of meaning' is a good way of looking at it.

Original:

Do they expect us to break into song and dance, like they do in the musicals? I want to kiss and caress her, like they do in the musicals, but instead I hold back, like they do in Baroque opera, and the moment when I should have been impulsive is lost.


Revised version (better):

Do they expect us to break into song and dance, like they do in the musicals? I want to kiss and caress her like they do in the musicals, but instead I hold back - like they do in Baroque opera, and the moment when I should have been impulsive, is lost.


So the two units of meaning in the first sentence are combined into one (as they should be) in the second by omitting the comma. Also, the important 'is lost' is emphasised by adding a comma.
Also, I think the dash is better because of the abrupt change of meaning.

I anyone disagrees, or has a better alternative, please do say.
I only want perfection.

Yes, I do agree the second one is better.

A more casual, informal voice might even ditch the comma in the first sentence though I agree with you that it's more rhythmic and shapely with it, and you then get the more free-running second version without the comma. Trying it aloud, it sounds fine either way, just different.

Correctness would dictate a comma after 'moment' as well, or no comma before 'is lost', but two is too many, and I see what you mean about emphasising the 'is lost'.

If it were me - and because I'm a shameless barnstormer - I'd be tempted to use a pair of dashes:

Do they expect us to break into song and dance, like they do in the musicals? I want to kiss and caress her like they do in the musicals, but instead I hold back - like they do in Baroque opera - and the moment when I should have been impulsive, is lost.

partly to re-inforce the echo of "like they do in musicals"/"like they do in Baroque opera", for the pleasure of it, setting up a bigger rhythm in the paragraph as a whole.

And partly because it keeps the overall sentence-unit more clearly in one piece by making the Baroque sub-clause more clearly just an interruption:

I want to kiss her/but instead I hold back/and the moment/is lost.

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And if it were me - it isn't - I'd probably have it as "and I do want to kiss and caress", to reinforce the same-but-different effect of "song and dance/like the musicals" and then "kiss and caress/like the musicals"

Hi Emma,

I agree with you. I have written my story with probably too many commas. I will edit them out when I finally read the whole thing aloud. I'll probably put a few in that aren't already present. It is, for me at any rate, how I want my words read. As to correctness, well, that is another story.

Max

I like Emma's boxed version best.

Correctness would dictate a comma after 'moment' as well, or no comma before 'is lost', but two is too many, and I see what you mean about emphasising the 'is lost'.

Not sure that would be correct because a comma after 'moment' separates the moment from it's qualifying description, i.e. 'moment when I should have been impulsive' is one 'unit of meaning'. The sort of thing that might expressed - in a light piece of writing - as 'moment-when-I-should-have-been-impulsive'.

I like the comma before 'is lost', gives it a sort of lyrical sadness.

I was thinking of "when I should have been impulsive" as a weak interjection, with parenthetical commas, in the middle of "the moment/was lost" clause. A strong interjection would use parenthetical dashes:

but instead I hold back and the moment - when I should have been impulsive - is lost.

which is too much, obviously. But it depends how you read "when/impulsive", doesn't it - as part and parcel of "the moment", or slightly separate amplification.

Thank you all for your input.