Terry.

You say: "There's no apprenticeship in novel writing – you either get published or you don't."

A fact of life. But we keep writing. Until we stop. And of course, when we stop might be right now ... but we can always start again.

Joe (with one hand washing the other at a very late hour)

The book Atlanta Nights, "the worst book ever written", was a hoax. It was written by a group of science fiction authors who were told to each write a chapter of the worst prose they could possible write. Then the book was submitted to PublishAmerica - to see if it would be accepted - and it was! They had proved their popint - that this publisher accepts all manuscipts without a care for content. I read the first few chapters online - it's hilarious. The people who write it are associated with a couple of those author watchdog sites - preditors and editors, and writer beware. I'll try and find the link and post it here.

Yes, didn't PA pull out when they realised it was a hoax and then it went on to be a bestseller!

Here's the story of Atlanta Nights:

http://www.critters.org/sting/

I don't know if its a bestseller but it got a lot of media attention!

Cas (Darkstar) also mentioned Atlanta Nights:
http://www.writewords.org.uk/forum/51_31977.asp

Are there evening classes to learn to write like this? They might be fun!

Adele

Anyone looking for a creative writing course may find this site of interest:

http://www.literaturetraining.com

Hi Mazzy, sorry to interrupt your conversation, but I notice you took the MA at Bath Spa and I'd like to ask you about it.

I've been offered places at Bath Spa and Falmouth to do the masters, but I'm having doubts about whether Bath would be right for me. I can't see myself writing a novel, I think my style is more journalism and poetry (an odd mixture I know). I'm also having cold feet about the whole writing idea- I know they've accepted me, but you know, imposter paranoia...would you mind telling me what you thought of Bath?
I'm sorry, this question has probably cropped up on the forum about a thousand times- cover your eyes, everyone. Thanks for any advice x

Ps

Ahem, I deliberately spelt impostor incorrectly to check you are all awake (and to give you that nice glow when you can spot a mistake in someone else's writing. Which I have been guilty of. Now and then.)

Mary Jane

I didn't write a novel for my main manuscript either, I put together a collection of short fiction. Although my year only had a lone poet (i.e. someone who specifically concentrated on poetry) in most years there would probably be a group of a least half a dozen poets if recent years are anything to go on...

There is/was also a module which looked at the prose/poetry border called 'The Poet's Eye' which was taught by Philip Gross. I don't know who will have taken that over...might be Tim Liardet or Gerard Woodward..check details with the college of what they have planned for next year. I don't think there is any straight journalism option, although if there is enough demand I think they run a creative non-fiction' module...not sure if it ran in my year or not...

Sorry this all sounds a bit vague, but I guess you're going to need to make a decision quite soon. I was a late-applicant two years ago, so I know what it's like. If you have any more detailed questions or want some personal feedback on the course then drop me a WWmail and I'll try to answer.

Mazzy

did you all have to pay for the fees yourself? I've got an interview in a few days and one of the questions will be "how are you paying for this?". My answer: "I haven't got a clue."

colin

I'm currently doing a Creative Writing MA. I did two evening classes before applying for that, to see how I felt about the whole writing being taught thing, and to check I really could make the time in my everyday life. Testing the water, really.

The classes were run by a local university. The first one was meant to be the same level as the first year of an undergrad degree, the second one, the second year.

I loved them, and they cemented my decision to go ahead with the MA. I was impressed with the quality of teaching, although that wasn't the reason I enjoyed them so much. The benefits for me were:

- Giving myself permission to spend a few hours a week writing. This soon escalated, and I was spending loads of time, and finding windows in my hectic life and discovering that - yes! - I really did have time.

- Meeting likeminded writers with whom I could exchange work and go for a drink sometimes, and who would kick my arse if I wasn't writing.

- Meeting some grown up writers (the tutors) who could talk me through MAs, magazines, contacts, getting started, keeping going. Invaluable.

Really got my arse in gear...

<Added>

Meant to say, Colin, in terms of the MA, I pay in installments, term by term, so it's not quite as bad as it might be. (Still a heavy financial commitment, though.)

It's part-time, distance-learning, so I still work full time, and have kissed goodbye to social activity at weekends.

I have leart to be more disciplined, and buy fewer frivilous items of clothing. I don't have a family to feed, though...

K

Sorry, I've just come across this thread, having been away. Mazzy, your analysis of what to think about for a Masters was brilliantly clear.

FWIW, I've just finished the Creative Writing MPhil at Glamorgan, which is super-flexible but not simply distance learning: more like a PhD, in that it's small (8 students per year) and you get a tutor to yourself, and work out how you want to work between you, then it's email/phone/post, except for 4 workshop weekends in each of 2 years, and a week-long residency at Ty Newydd. The residencies generate a terrific creative heat. It's also relatively long-established (12+ years). Philip Gross has just moved there from Bath Spa, and it's already particularly well-known for poets (as well as PG, there's Sheenagh Pugh, Gillian Clarke). It does concentrate on poetry and short and long fiction. I paid each year's fee in 5 instalments, though you have to factor in travel and a b&b for each residency - you only need a night, or a friend/aunt/cave/hedge within striking distance of Pontypridd.

I thought it was terrific, though perhaps it best suits people with a fair idea of what they want to do, rather than a vague desire to write something. If you're feeling like being an academic snob, it's a higher degree than an MA, and could exempt you from the first part of a PhD (or at least, that's what I'm trying to persuade Goldsmiths'

Emma