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  • When should the hero appear?
    by Dee at 06:35 on 31 May 2005
    I'm plotting a sequel to The Winter House in which Fynn is persuaded, against his better judgement, to repair a fire-damaged hotel. He does this against a backdrop of a hotel manager who is struggling to save her marriage, a chef whose past has caught up with him, and a bitchy ghost who just wants them all to get out of what used to be her family home.

    Those of you who’ve met Fynn in TWH will understand that, no matter what I do with the other characters, he will inevitably be the main one. My problem is that, the way I want to structure the novel, he doesn’t appear until about a quarter of the way into the story.

    I'm not too happy about this but I can’t see how else to do it without the first quarter of the novel appearing later as backstory.

    Any suggestions?

    Dee
  • Re: When should the hero appear?
    by jane199 at 08:24 on 31 May 2005
    It might be too simple to work but could the other characters talk/reminisce about him a lot ( or don't they know him?) so that he 'virtually' appears in the first quarter? If the others don't already know him, could they meet someone who did so he/she can talk a lot about him! I have no idea at all whether this will help!

    Jane
  • Re: When should the hero appear?
    by ashlinn at 09:00 on 31 May 2005
    Dee,

    I haven't read anything of your novel so it's difficult to offer any useful suggestion. However, in sequels, readers tend to have more strongly established expectations than if it is a once-off novel. They are reading the sequel often because they enjoyed the first one and expect to find similar things in the next one. If Fynn was a very strong character (and that's the impression I get from your posting) then they might be dissapointed if they don't meet him until quite a way into the book. I think it would be worth getting your readers to define what they liked most about book number 1 so that you keep that in mind for no. 2.

    Just out of curiosity, if The Winter House were a film, which actor would you like to see playing Fynn?

    By the way, what's wrong with backstory? If it's woven through the narrative as opposed to thrown at us in chunks it might work out OK. Most mystery/ thriller/ crime novels have a lot of backstory. We're faced with a fait accompli and the hero has to figure out what led to this. Couldn't Fynn do this?
  • Re: When should the hero appear?
    by Colin-M at 10:27 on 31 May 2005
    Columbo never appeared until a good ten minutes into the films. It was like everything was building up to him turning round and saying "my wife loves these little things"

    Still, I can't help thinking that if Flynn is the central character, then it's his story, and should really start with him. Only one way to find out though... write it!

    Colin M
  • Re: When should the hero appear?
    by shellgrip at 11:35 on 31 May 2005
    I don't have a problem with the 'hero' appearing later in a novel. If anything, I usually try to force a later appearance - having the hero on page 1 seems a bit like a rush to me

    Why are you unhappy about it? If there is story to tell that doesn't (yet) include Fynn then what problem is there in telling it? I hate to use this as an example but it's the only one that's popped into my head - Clive Cussler typically gives a whole history of an event before we first meet Dirk Pitt. In his case, it's important that we understand what has gone before so that the role of his hero - and the importance of his actions - are understood. I have no problem with this. In Cussler's case it also helps to cut down the amount of exposition in his dialogue to merely 'annoying'

    Jon
  • Re: When should the hero appear?
    by Account Closed at 11:47 on 31 May 2005
    I sometimes think this can work. I like the idea of a slow build up, and if it's done well, you can even mislead the reader into thinking Fynn isn't in the new story - then surprise them!

    I suppose this works mainly with villians, but like someone said, if you introduce Fynn 'virtually', you'll probably get away with it.

    A sequel sounds great Dee - except I haven't finishe dthe first book yet! How's it going with your agent/publisher?

    JB
  • Re: When should the hero appear?
    by Dee at 18:39 on 31 May 2005
    Thanks, everyone. That’s given me a lot to think about.

    JB, The Winter House has had its first rejection. The publisher loved it but turned it down on the grounds that supernatural doesn’t sell. (!) That was quite a blow after spending 18 unsuspecting months writing it. However, it’s out with another one now – too early for a decision yet – and I live in hope that not all publishers share the same view of ghost stories. My agent is hugely enthusiastic – said he couldn’t stop reading it.

    Which all means that it’s something of an act of faith to start a sequel. However, all the little threads of the idea are clogging my brain like cooked spaghetti, so I have to get it out.

    Jon, I’m worried because, after a few chapters, readers tend to relate to the characters they’ve already got to know. Bringing in a main character after 25,000 words might make them inclined to disregard him.

    Colin, it’s Fynn… But you’re right about Columbo! It’s famous for not bringing him in until everyone has forgotten what they’re watching.

    Ashlinn, I already see Fynn as something like James Caviezel although, after The Passion I don’t expect he’d be available – even supposing he could master a Cumbrian accent… Other WW members who followed the novel chapter-by-chapter were fairly clear what they particularly liked – Fynn and the scary bits. There’s nothing wrong with backstory, as long as it’s well handled. The main reason I want to avoid it in this case is that I have the opening line – and I ain’t gonna change that! – but it starts the story way before Fynn comes into it.

    Jane, good idea but, unfortunately, the other characters don’t know him. He is recommended to them after the events which occur in the first quarter of the story. The only way I can introduce him before this point is to think up a new thread to explain why he feels almost forced to repair the hotel.

    For those of you who don’t know the story of The Winter House, Fynn is an architect with his own specialist house-building firm. He bought himself an old house and, in the renovation process, he activated a chain of hostile hauntings which almost killed him. The experience has left him with previously unsuspected psychic abilities. In the sequel, when he is called in to renovate the hotel, he learns to accept and control these abilities.

    Thanks again. This has helped to clarify my thinking.

    Dee
  • Re: When should the hero appear?
    by Colin-M at 18:45 on 31 May 2005
    It used to happen with the Pathetic Sharks in Viz too, but another example is Psycho. You think the lead lady is the star, but halfway through - chop chop chop - swirl of blood and water, and the viewpoint changes.

    Hope you get good news soon. I'll be in the virtual bar.

    Colin M
  • Re: When should the hero appear?
    by Dee at 19:06 on 31 May 2005
    Ooooh! I’d forgotten about Psycho. Thanks Colin. I’ll buy you several virtual drinks if I get the news I’m hoping for!

    Dee
  • Re: When should the hero appear?
    by Friday at 19:52 on 31 May 2005
    Hi Dee,

    The sequel sounds exciting. Great plot. I’m already into the Chef - I know, I always go for the bad ones.

    Being a fan of Fynn, I'd want to see him in the first chapter. In The Winter House, he makes a great intro. I still remember it now!!!

    How about giving him a subplot that starts the story – then you could weave the story lines together.

    First chapter Fynn
    Next chapter the fire-damaged hotel (new characters),
    then Fynn…
    and keep going until they meet!

    Whatever you do, I'm sure you'll have fun meeting up with Fynn again.

    All the best,
    Friday,x
  • Re: When should the hero appear?
    by ashlinn at 21:01 on 31 May 2005
    Dee,

    I'm fascinated. How about if Fynn gets called in to renovate the dilabidated hotel and then the fire happens while he's working on it? That way he's on the spot. If you don't like the idea of the coincidence, you could make it that somehow Fynn's psychic powers trigger off forces that cause the fire. Then he might feel guilty about the whole thing and feel obliged to stick around and sort out the problem. Don't mind me, I'm just brain-storming here all by myself.
    And the actor suggestion gives me a one-word impression of the kind of guy Fynn is.
    By the way, I'm depressed by your difficulties to get published. I thought if you got a good agent who was enthusiastic about your novel that you'd be home and dry but obviously not. Good luck. It sounds like starting another one is the best way to keep the nerves under control.

    Ashlinn
  • Re: When should the hero appear?
    by Dee at 21:37 on 31 May 2005
    Dawn, great to see you again. I think you’re right. He’s such a wonderful character, isn’t he, (it’s not just me thinking that, is it? Is it???)

    I’m glad you have such fond memories of Fynn… I think I have to work on getting him in as near the start as possible.

    Dee
    x
  • Re: When should the hero appear?
    by Dee at 21:46 on 31 May 2005
    Ashlinn, you have to explain this:

    And the actor suggestion gives me a one-word impression of the kind of guy Fynn is.

    I’m absolutely fascinated!!!

    Also:
    How about if Fynn gets called in to renovate the dilapidated hotel and then the fire happens while he's working on it?

    Excellent idea… I hadn’t thought of that.

    Dee

  • Re: When should the hero appear?
    by Sue H at 07:55 on 01 June 2005
    Dee,
    I think Fynn has to be there at the beginning. You should write the sequel as though it's a stand alone story and we'll need to get to know and love Fynn again. There's no reason why he has to be linked to the hotel at first. We could just see him working on something else to get an idea of what he does. Or maybe he's thinking of switching careers because he's becoming increasingly unsatisfied with what he's doing - understandable after his recent experiences!! Maybe he could fall in love with the burnt hotel and get all enthusiastic again?

    Sorry about the rejection but fingers crossed for the second submission. At least your agent has loads of enthusiasm - that counts for a lot. And, of course, the fact that it's a damn good story!!

    Sue
    xx
  • Re: When should the hero appear?
    by Dee at 09:35 on 01 June 2005
    Sue,

    to know and love Fynn again

    Thanks for that.

    I can’t see Fynn losing enthusiasm for his career – he enjoys it too much for that. However, I do think maybe he’s a little too secure with the success of his business. I think maybe he’s going to lose a big contract that will leave an uncomfortable hole in his finances. He’s going to be faced with maybe making some of his workforce redundant unless he can find something to justify their wages… oooh! I've just had an idea – I'm brainstorming here – do you remember his sister Rhia? Well she’s a self-employed carpenter… she’s the link, isn’t she? She can be doing some work at the hotel before the fire, and she can recommend Fynn when they need a new builder. Excellent!!!

    Thanks Sue! I'm off to work that into the plot now.

    Dee

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