In my WIP I seem to be using 'Blah, blah, blah,' said Sam, quite a bit. But I'm wondering, is this right or should it always be 'Blah, etc,' Sam said?

(Blah, blah, blah is for illustrative purposes only - the final read might not resemble the example given!)

Any thoughts would be gratefully received.

Regards, Andy

I also default to 'Blah, blah, blah,' said Sam, more often than not - I think that it's to do with the rhythm. After the final word that's spoken, the 'said' as a weak stress, usually sounds better leading to the stronger stress of the name, than vice versa of 'Blah, blah, blah,' Sam said.

FWIW, my masters tutor said I shouldn't write 'said Sam' in that context because you'd never write the faux-archaic-sounding:

Said Sam, 'Blah, blah, blah.' but only Sam said, 'Blah, blah, blah.'

nor would you write

'Blah, blah, blah,' said I,

I think it's probably the only suggestion of his which I entirely ignored (as opposed to considering, and then ignoring.)

And I've certainly never had it picked up by an editor, or a copy editor, or anyone else.

Emma

Maybe your problem is not where their said goes, but that you have two S words together.
Would you feel the same way if it was changed to ...said Henry ?

<Added>

oops, the not their

Thanks, Emma,

the 'said' as a weak stress, usually sounds better leading to the stronger stress of the name, than vice versa of 'Blah, blah, blah,' Sam said.

That's what I thought too, it was just picked up on in a flash I wrote for FF1 so I thought I'd better check if I was doing something wrong (again!). Some sentences seem to work okay with Sam said, but as you say, the rhythm doesn't seem right with others.

I'm relieved to hear that you've never had it picked up on by an editor.

Thanks again.

Regards, Andy

Hi Naomi,

An interesting point. Sam is actually my son's name and I just picked it to illustrate my query, my MC is called Davey, but, the other main character is called Sunset, with yet another 's'. Drat, you think one problem's solved then another pops up!

Regards, Andy

'Blah,' said Sam sounds most natural to my ears.

But you could vary it with: Sam said, 'Blah.'

My favourite is not to attribute the saying but an action instead.
e.g. 'Blah.' Sam picked at the frayed wool of his cuff.

Also, I'm aware this is controversial, but I have no problem with using other words than 'said' for speaking. If Sam says, 'Blah,' across a street or through two rooms, let him shout or call or cry. Or he can grunt or nod or yawn. It's not a fashionable view but they're all words available to us, and as long as they don't draw attention away from the scene, but pull us more deeply into it, they're fair game. I like words that give a bit of a character clue. 'Blah,' Sam informed them or 'Blah,' he insisted to show the person is a little self important or demanding.

Thanks, Cherys,

I like attributing speech with an action too. When it's clear that the speech and action are by the same bod it avoids the need for 'said' or 'Sam' altogether and seems to push things along along a bit qicker.

But whoa! Being controversial on WW, I'm not sure I should read on - what if I get corrupted in my (not so) young innocence?

I agree with a an 'insisted' or a 'call' or even a 'yell' when said would seem just a little lame. I just try to stay shy of 'Blah!' she screamed stridently!

Andy

Hi Andy

I think the problem (if problem there is!) perhaps lies in the alliteration of the S words in question. (Sam & said) I think it's something I like to be aware of in the context of the actual prose. And if used in a final sentence, the name first gives a closer - for me anyway.

I try to be aware of not being too formulaic and repetitive - he said, she said, he said.... or said she, said he, said she.... and as Susannah has said there are many ways of saying 'said'.

Avis

Thanks, Avis,

See what you mean about the closer. And yes, variety is the spice. At least I know it's not a downright no-no to put 'said Rumplestiltskin', or whoever.

Thanks to all.

Regards, Andy

Don't have a problem with "Sam said" myself, though I might if it grew into "Sam said silently and with suspicion".

Yes, I think using an action as the speech attribution is a very good way.

The whole speech-tag question seems to me to get muddied because it's not (of course) nearly as simple as "said" versus anything else, whatever Elmore Leonard says (and he meant those rules as jokes anyway).

But it's turned into a blog post, so I'm awa' to do that, and I'll be back with a link...

Emma

Here's something as grist to the mill

http://wordplay-kmweiland.blogspot.com/2011/04/most-common-mistakes-series-how-not-to.html

Emma I loved your example

Sam said silently and with suspicion

Avis

Drat, and I was so fond of the line 'Silly Sam said silently as he stared suspiciously at Sarah's squash soup.'

I look forward to your link, Emma.

Andy

Thanks for the link, Avis, great stuff!

The book I hate most in the world (OK, so it's not Mein Kampf, but...) is Browne and King's 'Self-Editing for Fiction Writers'. They are horribly bossy and prescriptive in all kinds of irritating ways. And on p. 91 they instruct: 'Place the character's name or pronoun first in a speaker attribution ("Dave said").' They claim that putting 'said dave' is 'less professional' (!) and has an 'old-fashioned, first-grader flavor' (!!).

Ever since reading that I have more or less refused on principle ever to put 'Dave said'! Even before that, I usually used 'said Dave' but would vary it from time to time depending on the feel and rhythm of the sentence. (Actually, to tell the truth, I probably still do, but I certainly strongly favour 'said Dave'.)

My own view (based on very unscientific casual observation) is that 'said Dave' is (i) more British and (ii) more traditional, but that 'Dave said' is (ii) usual in the US and (ii) creeping in to be more common over here, too, especially in commercial fiction.

The other thing I feel is that if you are going to add a subordinate clause about Dave, it flows better if dave's name comes after the speech tag,

'What, me?' asked Dave, pointing at his chest.

seems smoother to me than

'What me?' Dave asked, pointing at his chest.

because in the second one I think the two verbs together are lumpy, and in the first one the subject and the participle verb it goes with are next to each other so it reads very easily.

Just my penn'orth.

Rosy x

Ooh, Rosy, that self-editing book does sound irritating! Though I do know people who swear by it. All together now:

THERE ARE NO RULES IN WRITING, ONLY TOOLS

And I agree, the rhythm is often what dictates which way round it wants to be.

Emma