What are people's thoughts about the use of 's' or 'z' in -ise/-ize endings?

The OED and some other authorities seem to present -ize as the preferred spelling for verbs like recognize (although often showing -ise as an alternative). Am I alone in thinking that usage has made the -ize version look somewhat old-fashioned?

If I try typing recognize, categorize, etc., I feel a compulsion to switch back to 's'. What's the norm in contemporary fiction?

Chris

I rarely use the 'z' endings - I think they look like American English, which there's nothing wrong with - I'm just not writing in it. But even set to English (UK) one of my computers auto corrects to the 'z' endings. Which I don't like.

Yes, I use -ise endings; I think I was always told that -ize is American.

But yes, you see -ize in old books. Presumably one of the many examples of US retainsing usages and UK evolving.

But I write connexion, in imitation of Henry James, just because I enjoy how it looks. It's not even etymologically correct, it's a inkhorn spelling, like possessive apostropes.

Emma

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Golly, I've just looked it all up in Fowler and it's fiendishly complicated, depending partly on the etymology of the word. But yes, -ise seems to be the more modern UK version.

I think I was always told that -ize is American.

Yes, that is what I was told too - but I don't think it is, really. Must crack open the David Crystal and have a think about it. I just know I don't like the look of it. I'd probably be less against it if my word processing package let me decide myself if I wanted to use it or not.

Certainly, if you set Word's spell-checker to Engish (US), it corrects everything to have -ize endings, as well as removing double consonants in words like 'cancelled'. So -ize is American English, these days (although I have a feeling it was originally British English).

But even set to English (UK) one of my computers auto corrects to the 'z' endings.

I've sometimes had this problem with Word. You might like to select the whole text of a document where it's doing this (using Ctrl-A), then check what language it thinks the text is. Often it's US English even when you thought you'd set it to UK English. I think it might be to do with what the setting is in the template that it derives the document from.

Alex

Aha! I will try this, thank you.

-ise. I usually ignore spellcheck. There are a few words I always get wrong and spellcheck is handy then, but I never rely on it. Ditto with the grammar. If I phrase things a certain ungrammatical way I mean it.

Ditto with the grammar.

I always switch off grammar checking in Word, as I refuse to accept that software can consistently and accurately check English grammar. Maybe I would believe it in a language like Russian, where the grammar is so precise, but not in English.

The spellchecker is a different matter, though. I'm often writing technical documentation, where I use terms that the spellchecker will always reject (such as database table names like ProductSynonym), but it is nevertheless useful to have words that the spellchecker isn't sure of underlined with red squiggles.

Alex

Yes, I use -ise endings; I think I was always told that -ize is American. But yes, you see -ize in old books.

-ize endings were still commonplace for many English words until the early 1980s. I remember when it started to change - I used to spell many words with that ending. I changed over when -ise became more modern (with great relief, as I could never remember which could be spelled either way, and which had to be -ise).

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"realise" still looks very odd to me with an 's'. I'll never get used to that one.

I spell everything -ise. Again I thought -ize was the US version, probably because of Word spell-checker.

I usually add the words into the dictionary if the spell-checker doesn't like it. That way it doesn't come up again and I don't have to constantly check what language it thinks I'm writing in.

'-ize' is what they use in Oxford English. The Oxford Guide to English Usage says:

'-ize should be preferred to -ise as a verbal ending in words in which both are in use, according to Oxford University Press house style.'

It goes on to say that -ize is also the common US spelling and that both -ise and -ize are in common usage in the UK.

We had this argument at work, as I used to work for a civil engineering magazine where the editor insisted on -ise and I carried this thinking on to my new job.

When I explained the reason for insisting on -ise - 'English uses -ise and US uses -ize' - one of my colleagues checked this out. I was told that the English usage used to be -ize, but we had moved to -ise more recently. However, when reviewing this tonight, I found the following:

n the last few decades, the suffix -ise has become the more common spelling in the UK. Many incorrectly regard -ize as American English, though it has been in use in English since the 16th century.

So, -ize has been in use in English for 500 years, but there is no evidence that -ize was the only usage at the time (as they couldn't spell!).

However, the majority of people in the UK, Australia and New Zealand seem to use -ise.

Sharley

Having said I spell them -ise, I'm not sure I do. I suspect it varies from word to word... 'Baptise' looks very odd to me in place of baptize, and so does civilise - not least because I think I'd certainly write civilization. Kenneth Clark certainly did...

Fowler says - my edition is 1999:

1 some verbs must always be spelt -ise, e.g. advertise, advise

2) AmE spelling of analyse, catalyse as analyze, catalyze is a different issue

3) Take an example: Baptise. Latin: baptizare; French: baptiser; AmEng baptize; newer BrEng baptise

[paraphrasing slightly] "In Britain OUP, and until recently The Times, presents all such words spelt -ize. So do all American writers and publishers. However many publishing houses in Britain, including CUP, now use -ise."

"The matter remains delicately balanced but unresolved. The primary rule is that all words of the type authorize/authorise, civilize/civilise legalize/legalise may legitimately be spelt iwth either -ize or -ise throughout the English speaking world, except in America where -ize is compulsory."

Don't get your knickers in a twist about it, in other words...

Emma

-ize endings were still commonplace for many English words until the early 1980s.

I find this really interesting - the fact that our language can change so quickly. I know, theoretically, that it happens - and new words are being coined all the time - but I started school in the early 1980s and I don't think I've ever seen 'ize' in a British publication, which just shows you how fast things can change.

1 some verbs must always be spelt -ise, e.g. advertise, advise

That's a good argument for sticking with '-ise', I reckon: difficult to get it wrong.

Curiously, 'baptize' and 'civilize' look subtly odd to me, and I would always go for the '-ise' endings for those words - which goes to prove, I suppose, precisely nothing.