Apologies in advance if this is a really dim question, but what are people's views on italicising a main character's thoughts?

This arose recently when a chapter of my NiP was discussed in Intensive Critique. Some people found the italics distracting, others found them easy to follow but felt that I'd not been consistent in my usage as some observations, if not directly attributed to the main character, could be seen as authorial intrusion. (There is a further complication in that a 'mystery character' appears briefly at intervals and his thoughts are always italicised).

I'm not published as yet (apart from a runner-up place in a short story competition for Woman&Home), and I'm not a very technical writer, so I'm guilty of not analysing what seems to work (until it doesn't, if you see what I mean).

If I don't italicise, does anyone have any suggestions as to what to do instead? Won't the mc's thoughts simply disappear into the rest of the text? Although it would throw the mystery man's appearances into sharper relief, I suppose ... help! Any advice welcomed.

Gaius, only reason I didn't post this on IC is because I wanted as many opinions as possible to try and get my head straight

I have just this minute sent off a short story where the MC's thoughts are italicised plus I'm in the middle of reading Audrey Niffenegger's "Her Fearful Symmetry" where italicises her characters' thoughts.

it doesn't put me off. But nothing puts me off apart from bad writing. However, often people can pick up on something like 'italics for thoughts' or whatever, because it's easier than saying they don't like your work.

I am not suggesting this is the case in this instance, Astrea, only that it can be a lazy way of offering criticism rather than putting their finger on something that doesn't work in the actual writing.

I dislike italicised thoughts. It's usually unnecessary because it's obvious to the reader that it's that pov character's thoughts so it doesn't need to be pointed out. But I think it depends on the publisher; some do it, some don't.

I italcise thoughts - but until recently I assumed that was just how you did it, I didn't know there was another way. So it isn't really a reasoned choice for me, just a habit.

However, often people can pick up on something like 'italics for thoughts' or whatever, because it's easier than saying they don't like your work. I am not suggesting this is the case in this instance

Good.

It would be utterly wrong in the specific utterly ignoring the context in the general and utterly ignoring the purpose and ethic of IC to do so.

Good. It would be utterly wrong in the specific utterly ignoring the context in the general and utterly ignoring the purpose and ethic of IC to do so.

Oh dear, this is exactly what I wanted to avoid. For the avoidance of doubt, there is no suggestion that any critique was unfair/lazy/whatever. I welcome, am grateful for and take note of any comments someone has taken the time to give when looking over my stuff.

As I said, the only reason I posted in the Technique forum instead of in the group is that I'm not at all technical, and I wanted as wide a range of opinions as possible, plus some suggestions as to how I could do it differently.

I wanted as wide a range of opinions as possible, plus some suggestions as to how I could do it differently

Then it's probably worth uploading and linking a sample so that people can comment on the specific rather than talking in vague generalities - like everything with writing, there's a million ways to do it and they all have their merits and demerits depending on the context and purpose.
G

Then it's probably worth uploading and linking a sample so that people can comment on the specific rather than talking in vague generalities

Hmm. I'm not sure I was that vague, but I'm happy to clarify if needed. What I didn't want to do was post a chunk of my stuff uninvited and make it look as if I was expecting detailed critique - that is what IC does, and does very well.

What interests me is hearing what other people do in similar situations.

Apologies if any offence was taken.

I know it's quite a common practice, but I think it rarely works as well as making it clear what's going on by other means. I'd always save italics for things which are quoted - I specially like them for when someone remembers something which was said before.

As I understand it, you can either do thoughts as reported by the narrator

He opened the door and saw Mary. After a long moment he said, "What are you doing here?". Her eyes were red and puffy; she looked dreadful, he thought, wondering if she were ill or if she'd even been crying. But he said, "You look wonderful, darling."

in free indirect style, blending the narrator's voice and narrative tense with the character's thoughts:

He opened the door and saw Mary. After a long moment he said, "What are you doing here?". Her eyes were red and puffy; she looked dreadful. Was she ill? Or had she even been crying? But he said, "You look wonderful, darling."

or as directly quoted "silent speech" (which not so long ago would actually have had ""s round it, but the convention's changed). Note how the tense is changed from the other two.

He opened the door and saw Mary. After a long moment he said, "What are you doing here?". Her eyes were red and puffy. She looks dreadful, he thought. Is she ill? Has she even been crying? But he said, "You look wonderful, darling."

None of those need italics to work and be clear, I'd suggest.

Emma

I am totally inconsistent! Sometimes I italicise my characters thoughts, sometimes I don't. Sometimes it doesn't bother me in other people's work, sometimes it does.

I think it's perfectly ok to be inconsistent, and that italicisation works when it works.

For me, what I find annoying, is when every third line is an italicised thought. Partly because italics are hard to read, and partly because in that quantity to my mind the thoughts are no longer discrete intrusions, but part of the narrative, and should be in narrative text.

But the occasional italicised thought is fine in my book (arf). I tend to use it when my character 1) has a real time thought I want to emphasise for dramatic reasons and 2) when the thoughts work best in "direct speech" (for want of a better term) rather than reported or narrated "speech".

I do think that over italicisation can be a sign that the writer is over-desperately trying to show not tell, and this is a clumsy way of shoe-horning you into the character's head, rather than doing it by more subtle means. Not saying that's what's going on here (I haven't read any of your work) but perhaps that's why it has uneasy associations for some people?

I don't think you were vague, Astrea. It's not really a big deal for me one way or the other, but I guess it's the kind of thing others can tie themselves up in knots about. Do what chimes best with you. I was just saying that for me the story and the writing is what counts, not the font.

I do think that over italicisation can be a sign that the writer is over-desperately trying to show not tell, and this is a clumsy way of shoe-horning you into the character's head, rather than doing it by more subtle means.

Sorry, crossed with Emma and Flora. Agree with this, Flora. It's a lot like all those exclamations and capitalization you get in some chick-lit. I see that and I close the book, never to reopen it.

Thanks folks, really useful to see a range of opinions. Perhaps I do overuse a little - will try to prune back a little.

She looks dreadful, he thought.

Now, I thought this wasn't acceptable these days? Apologies if I've picked it up wrongly, but I thought saying 'she realised' 'she thought' etc was to be avoided? Or is this another grey area? Is it acceptable if not over-used?

Confused of Inverness

I thought saying 'she realised' 'she thought' etc was to be avoided?

I think perhaps the wires have got a bit crossed here. It's not as simple as that. Certainly

"She opened the door and he stepped in from the porch. She looked at him and realised that he was dripping wet with rain, and she thought that he must have come by bus, but decided that he'd never admit it."

is a very laborious way of saying (assuming we're anchored in her PoV from earlier, so we know who's thinking 'had he come'

"She opened the door and he stepped in from the porch. He was dripping wet with rain. Had he come by bus? He'd never say so, though."

You can think of it as a species of showing vs. telling. If you show us what's going on - her opening, his stepping, his dripping, her thought, her deduction... you don't need to tell us that she looked, realised, thought, decided.

BUT, if you wanted to draw the reader's attention to her thought process: her taking in his state, and when she moves on to deduce something about him, then you might want some of these tags. But the key is deciding, perhaps in revision, which ones are important, and which are tacking stitches and can go. You might get

"She opened the door and he stepped in from the porch. She looked at him. He was dripping wet with rain, and she decided he must have come by bus, only he was very unlikely to admit it."

Emma

Hmm. Okay - this isn't one of the examples which has been commented on, but it may well be an occasion where I've been too free with my italics.

(Scene - aftermath of a funeral. The mc has a good reason for wanting to leave the village with her daughter as soon as possible, when she meets someone from her past):

Thank God. Two more days, and we’re out of here. A wave of exhaustion hits her without warning, and she leans against the door-frame to steady herself. At least the air is fresher out here; Annie’s mob are still in the kitchen, smoking like badly-swept chimneys, and it’s been making her eyes water all afternoon. Damn it, not again. She’s rooting in her pocket for a tissue when a hand appears from nowhere to offer a neat white handkerchief. ‘I think you’re allowed to cry at your mother’s funeral, Chrissie.’ ‘It’s the smoke. But thanks anyway.’ When the hand stays where it is, she squints up at the man smiling down at her. He’s around her own age, a little too lean for his height perhaps, but he manages to look both appropriate and at ease in his dark suit and tie. He’s also vaguely familiar. When her blank expression doesn’t alter, his smile wavers a little. ‘You’ve no idea who I am, have you?’ There’s a disappointed edge to his voice; obviously she ought to know him. One of the Skye cousins,maybe? Definitely not one of Mam’s Caithness clan. But all her father’s family are dark, and he’s pepper and salt blond, without the long Fraser nose all the males seem to acquire around puberty. She looks at him again, more closely this time.

Which, if any, of these italics would you keep? I'm now thinking lose the ones in the last para - anyone else?