Agree with much of what Zettel has just said - whether it's with gender or anything else, one of the learning points for me about a piece of writing is when someone points out something which jars and seems out of joint with the character or situation.

And of course, would that there was more of George Eliot in more of us - but even if can't quite manage Middlemarch, I think the key must be to be aiming for what she does there, i.e. to make you feel at times completely the point of view of the most unlikely and unsympathetic characters.

I have just recently finished a first children's novel and it was only when a friend was surprised that I had made the central character a boy that I really thought about it. My second book has a girl for the main character and they are quite different people from each other, but also of course have things in common with each other because they have bits of myself in them - but I think it is individuals who are interesting and the connections and differences between them and everyone else. I don't mean this in a superficial, we're all just the same really sort of way, but rather that the big, over-arching differences such as race, gender etc. are one part of who we are - and people's different perspectives deserve respect, but they should not be limitations which cut one off from aspects of oneself. Gender is perhaps especially interesting because we both inherit things from both genders and so really do encompass both within ourselves.

One of my favourite quotes of all time is from Audre Lorde, talking both about writing and teaching - from Chapter 1 of 'The Cancer Journals':

... for it is not difference which immoblises us but silence, and there are so many silences to be broken.

In the past this has made me think about the importance of trying to lose some of the fear we all have of really trying to live in someone else's skin - and now seems important all over again since I started writing - guess in theory it is what we all must want to do as a writer, but sometimes it is harder than at others. So my take would be to try and lose the fear - which may in the end mean the same as 'don't think about it too hard.'

I'm sure other points raised so far such as thinking about physical details and checking things out with different readers all help, but can't help feeling that a passionate belief in our common humanity must take one quite a bit of the way.

On which far too serious note I think I should leave this thread and get back to work!

Veronica

Zettel, you’re right. Our feelings for characters do change as we progress through a novel. In fact, I think they should, otherwise the characters appear static. I meant the characters whose voice and actions aren’t convincing. If I’m listening to a character’s thoughts I want to know if it’s male or female.

Adele, which Tom Wolfe was that?

Dee

Dee, that was Tom Wolfe's latest novel, I am Charlotte Simmons. Far too much basketball, but otherwise very enjoyable.

Ah yes, bit of a clue in the title there…

Dee

I came across this thread by accident, but I suspect it may have been triggered by some of the comments on the opening scenes of my novel 'No Mystics' (downloaded on 22/2/05). I almost invariably write from a male perspective, but the psychology behind that decision is beyond me. Like someone else said, it could just be that I like men. I also still maintain that the 'debate' about the gender of my protagonist would never have happened if I'd 'hidden' my profile from the outset and therefore not revealed that I am, in fact, a girlie (a rather middle-aged girlie, I'm afraid).

Someone mentioned a website with a 'check your gender' facility for writers. The link was sent to me ages ago and fortunately I've still got it:
http://www.bookblog.net/gender/genie.html

In defence of my own 'cross-gender' writing, I must say that I pasted lots of samples of my work in there and came up 'male' every time. Out of curiosity, I pasted a (rare) chunk of writing that I'd done in 'first person female'. I was more than chuffed to come up female! Have a go and let us know!

Julie

Great link, Moj. I've checked Carter's Money against it and they reckon I'm male... great!

Dee

That website's not the one I meant, but how cool is it?! Cheers, Mojo. I could be online for days now....

Cath

Interesting site. I was quite pleased when I submitted a female POV and it reckoned I was a female author. Not quite so pleased when it reckoned the same about my male POV. Had me reaching for the measuring tape...

Anyway, regarding you original question Dee. I think myself that we're often attracted to the opposite gender as a POV because we don't really understand them. Oscar Wilde once said, "I cannot think other than in stories". Maybe this is what he meant. By creating an opposite POV, we're forcing ourselves into the mind of a man or a woman. We're thinking what it's like to be a man or woman. I remember once nearly choking when my sister told me that she just didn't understand men. I mean, what was there not to understand? The mere fact that she could ask such a question was in itself fascinating to me. Could men and women really be THAT different. Answers on a postcard, please...

FX

Ah well, FX, maybe your sister isn’t a writer? I think, as writers, we have to be able to sit in the heads of men, women, children, murderers, politicians, the rich, the poor, doctors, the dying... if we can’t empathise with such a variance of people, we can’t really write about them. I think the two are inextricably linked. We can empathise. That’s what makes us writers.

Thanks, Julie for putting up the gender genie link - I've been playing with it and it's great fun.

I pasted in two peices. One result was neck and neck, but male. The other predominantly female. Strangely, I've never even attemted to write from a female POV.

Interesting.

Darryl