Hi, I've just joined after lurking for some time.

I'm half a dozen chapters into the first draft of my first novel and am Very Aware of its problems. Some of the writing is, I think, good, some is plain not. A bit of a curate's egg. But I am writing on and not tinkering, as I used to, and am sure this is the right way to go.

But the further away from the beginning I get, the more I worry that I'm unable to hold the whole thing in my head, like I've let go the side of the swimming pool and am floating out into the scarey deep bit.

Also, I know that the two main characters need beefing up and that I've written things that are becoming irrelevant and have to go. The second is not a problem, I think, but can the characters be improved at second draft stage? Or is it way too late then?

I keep telling myself that the first draft can be shitty, perhaps even should be. That it's all negotiable, re-arrangeable, not written in stone. Am I right?

How much can be wrong at first draft stage?

I really believe in my story and am sure I can make it right in the end, but I don't want to write on, ignoring the glaring errors, if I should be getting certain things right first time round.

Thanks for any guidance you can give me.

Hi angleworm,

I am currently working to a NaNoWriMo model which means writing anything and cracking on, then sorting it out later.

Our Fast First Draft group on here is designed for that. Wanna join us? I have a FAQ in there in my own upload section which explains the ethos a bit. I wondered if that might be of interest to you to read, whether or not you wanna join us?

If you can't see it, please let me know and I can make it so you can.

Best wishes,

Deb

Hello angleworm,

There are no rules, it's just a very personal thing.

I like to keep on top of my plot and polish it whilst writing first draft, but my characters always need huge work on the second draft, they need much more fleshing out and really are shitty on the first go. I'll go through looking just at one character at a time - their dialogue, habits etc.

So,i wouldn't worry too much. At least you are aware your first draft is shitty in places. In the past i haven't realized this until i've sent the thing out without much change and got a pile of rejections!

I agree that anything can be fixed in second draft, and we all vary in what we tend to get right-ish first time, and what needs more work. My first drafts tend to be a bit boney, the motivations, settings and so on still latent, and not on the page enough for the reader - like Casey, some fleshing out required.

I'd suggest that it's worth trying to get the structure right at the beginning, because that's huge work to change if you're wrong. But even that's not impossible, if you realise halfway through that you've used the wrong narrator, or whatever. I think you have to accept (you clearly have accepted!) that sometimes you'll only know something doesn't work by trying to make it work...

On not feeling you've got the whole thing in your head, have you tried making notes about what needs doing to what's behind you? Both quite full workings-out of how Chapter One really ought to go - a paragraph, say, or a plan - and quick scribbles of minor adjustments or possible ideas? I always finish any draft with a big snaglist which writing that draft has thrown up.

Emma

Thank you all for your replies.

Deb, I can't currently join the FFD group because I'm only a trial member but I read the FAQs and am intrigued. I am not a fast writer by any means - 700 words is a good day! - and I could really use a means of speeding up. It's not so much the editor in me that slows me down as the control freak - or does that add up to the same thing?! Will bear the group in mind, and thanks.

I have used a technique from 'Writing Down the Bones', a writing exercise whereby you just keep your hand moving, not worrying what comes out. I find that, generally, I write 85% crap but the last thing that comes out can be a gem. Not sure it would be wise to apply it to a whole novel, but I should use it more as an occasional aside, I think, to get at the nugget I'm groping towards.

Casey, what you say about fleshing out your characters later is very comforting to me, thanks! I am concerned that my two main characters are a little lifeless at the moment, that I don't know them well enough, whilst one of my 'supporting actresses' is proving very easy to know and great fun to write. I've found this before. I think I am more relaxed about the creation of my lesser characters, so they flow better.

Emma, I, too, tend to write short. I think that, when the first draft is finally down, this will relax my mind and I can revisit the story with the leisure to look around more and see what I couldn't see before.

I agree about the structure, that is the one thing I am really trying hard to get right firs time for the reasons you mention. I am a bit concerned that I've opened with the secondary main character rather than the primary one (does that make sense, can I have two?!), but the more I think about it, the more I remain convinced that this is the right approach.

I'm writing longhand on one side of the paper only and making all manner of notes on the blank 'backs' as I go along, anything from notes about structure, snippets of dialogue, notes about holes in the story, arrows marked 'there should be . . . . here' or 'this is crap', even maps, room layouts and diagrams, in between bits of squished dinner and dubious marks from when the cat had diarrhoea. I have a two paragraph section with the same word used five times, each blackly underlined. How come I don't notice I'm doing that when I'm actually doing that?!

I think I have a basic handle on it, it's just as the thing grows I feel like I should be able to recall it all, but that way madness lies and I must let it go a little as I turn the page, I think. Making the notes about problems I'm aware of and then moving on really does help in that regard.

I think one of the biggest lessons I've learned about writing a novel is that it is, whilst it's being constructed, a loosely gathered pile of ideas which can be shuffled about until you're happy with the final result - not something that's cast in stone the moment the first ink has dried on the page. I learned that here. Thank you, WriteWords!

I just have to remember that all the time and not panic. But it's a huge and scarey undertaking this novel-writing lark and I think we're all brave as hell and allowed an occasional wobble!

Thanks again for your help, it's much appreciated.

I think there are two considerations here. First, there's the general-ish question of whether or not you, say, intentionally write crap first drafts to revise later, or try to get it right first time, fix the problems with the second go-through then send it off. And here I'd say there's been a shift recently (at least on this site) away from the perceived wisdom that the best way for everyone is to write crap first drafts, etc, towards a view that it really depends on how you work. Some writers need to actually write out the various processes that have to be gone through prior to producing a coherent story; others prefer to do it in their heads then try to nail the writing first time.

But another consideration, I believe, is to ask yourself if your current method is actually the best for you. The perception tends to be that you should work with what's naturally comfortable for you. But an argument against that view is that what's naturally comfortable often incorporates a lot of our historical habits which can actually work against us. In short, we all start as amateur writers, hoping to make the transition to being professional. And yet, when you think about any other field, it's easy to see that professionals approach their subject very differently to amateurs. In other words, I support the notion that as a writer begins to show definite desire to break out of amateur mode, they would probably do well to seek out the methods the professionals actually use and try them all until they get into a new way of working that can succeed.

Terry

Thanks for your comments, Terry.

The way I'm doing it is to write as well as I can whilst accepting that some of it is just coming out badly but not going back to tinker, just making notes. I find this works pretty well for me, especially as I used to be very anal about not moving on until everything was perfect. It's very freeing to know that it's all fixable, just not today.

I don't really obsess too much about the problems or the inability to 'hold it all in my head' - just on the days when it's not really happening.

Could anyone tell me what they think of opening with the '2nd main character'? The '1st main character', although around, doesn't really emerge as such until about Chapter 6. I think the answer is probably 'this is fine if you write it well enough', but opinions would be appreciated, thanks.

I feel your MC should be apparent from the off. If not you may have a problem. So ask yourself a few questions.

Have you picked the right MC? Why start where you have, if the MC isn't there till chapter 6, are the first 5 chapters, back story?

So, have you started the story too early? This is a problem even experienced writers struggle with - knowing when to start is very important so you should start as near the finish as you dare.

Ben

I think the thing is if you start feeling you need to perfect as you go it gets in the way of the writing flow. The simple fact is you can't edit a blank page, you need to get the bones down first.

The most common advice given by famous authors to new writers is WRITE - and write everyday. It doesn't matter if it is rubbish and ends up getting edited out in the end, it's all a valuable and necessary part of the process.

People work in different ways, some people need to do lots of planning and research before ever putting pen to paper (sometimes of course the project dictates this) others just go with the flow. Personally, I work somewhere in between and my first drafts are usually REALLY rubbish. I see the process like producing a piece of sculpture - draft after draft honing the story into something slightly better than before. Some people hate the editing stage but for me it's the best bit.

I don't know if you are trying to write your novel from beginning to end but for me I am writing bits here and there and slotting it all into place like a jigsaw. I am more used to writing short stories so I have a basic chapter plan and treat each chapter like a short story, redrafting each one a few times when it's finished before moving on. It may not be the best way to work and a bit long winded but it works for me and keeps the morale up.

All the best with it and here's a final thought for you that always keeps me going.

Before his friends had a word in his shell like, Tennyson's famous poem The Lady of Shallot had some pretty rubbish lines

The yellow leaved waterlily
and the greensheathed dafodilly
tremble in the water chilly[/i}

But he still became Poet Laureate

Even the great and good have off days!