I keep reading that a common fault novice writers make is mishandling POV. I also keep reading that you shouldn't change POV too often, certainly not within a scene, not use the POV of more than 3 characters in the course of a novel etc - presumably doing these things are the "mistakes" the novice writer makes.

Then I read novels where POV switches between the major - even sometimes the minor - characters, sometimes changes within a scene and I don't find it confusing, often I find it enriching.

So are there rules, and if so, what are they? What do others think?

Andrea

Ooh, help, Andrea - this is always a mystery to me - I've heard the rule too and have seen it well kept and also well broken! I think when it comes down to it, it's just what suits your work best - so bear the "rule" in mind but break it when it seems better. Does that make sense?

Mind you, having said that, 99% of my work is one viewpoint throughout - I don't have the intellect for changing - I can't keep track then!!!

))

LoL

A
xxx

Rules?

I guess it all depends on your point of view...

boom boom

Andrea, I really think you can have as many POVs as you like. It’s the way you handle them that matters.

I certainly wouldn’t change POV within a paragraph but I do frequently change within a scene. I tend to write largish chunks in each POV and always leave a white space between changes, but not everyone does that.

The critical skill is to make sure your readers always know which head they’re in. If you can crack that, then you can change POV as often as you wish.

Dee
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Beadle, that is wicked!

;)

My last novel had four POVs, and moved through them a chapter at a time. I find it a useful way of writing as a lot of the drama in what I write comes from the reader being able to see each character misunderstanding the others from inside their own heads as it were, rather than having to infer it from what a single narrator saw.

Cas

I'd say you have to be pretty consistent otherwise the reader gets confused and then bored and then gives up! I get really really p****d off when I'm reading a book and the POV changes constantly. It smacks of amateur writing to me but then I'm thinking more towards children/YA books?

Sue
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Looked at from one point of view (sorry), the most important thing is that the author knows what he's doing. When you surrender your attention to a story-teller, you need to feel that he knows where the story is going, and how to best take you on the journey. So, when an author switches POV without realising it, or switches it briefly to another character because he can't be bothered to work out how to convey the same information through the main POV character, you lose trust in his ability. Unconsciously, you know that if he's going to cheat on the small things, he's probably going to cheat on the big things, too, like a plot that's authentic or a character who's consistent. Like most other aspects of writing, I believe a writer has to learn control of POV before experimenting with it, and at first that tends to mean sticking with one character throughout a story.

I've just finished reading 'The Amulet of Samarkind', which for reasons I never worked out, alternates chapters between the first person POV of a djinn (can't remember the spelling), and the (more or less) third person POV of the main human character. At the climax, he switches between the two every couple of pages or so which I found very irritating. It also drew attention to the fact it wasn't clear in the first place why it was written that way. Another problem this switching causes, is that, because the writing is not so strong in the third person, and 'cheats' with POV switches at times, the book is unbalanced. You feel far more empathy with the djinn than you do with the boy, and that doesn't really work because the djinn is ultimately an entity that can't change or develop.

That's an interesting point, Terry - that the POV can give you more empathy with one character than the other. Never really thought of that before.

So many badgood puns

I too think when handled well, a shifting POV can enrich a story, and also that it can illustrate the lead through the eyes of those around him/her.

I just get baffled when I hear rules that seem to be so regularly broken and then I don't know whether I should be applying them to my own writing or not.

Perhaps, as Terry says, it depends on whether a writer can skilfully handle shifting POV.

Of course, then there's the question "how can a writer judge whether or not they're skilled enough to be experimenting with a shifting POV?" and I can't answer that, so the whole thing just goes round and round baffling me ...

I think well-handled, shifting POV adds to a story, so, dammit! I'm going to take the plunge and go for it ...

I think you should try it, Andrea. Experimentation can define, or at least enrich a style. It's also a damn good way of finding out what doesn't work, or what doesn't suit your style.

Maybe balance is the key. Alternating chapters is the easy option, but I've seen POV changing between paragraphs and work well. I think it only comes across as clumsy when you explain one person's thoughts and then switch POV to explain what the other person is thinking. If you do it through actions rather than thoughts it might be interesting.

Jack picked at his teeth, drummed the table, coughed twice and drained his glass, but nothing seemed to get her attention. Eventually he huffed himself to his feet and stomped off to the bogs.

As he disappeared from view Sarah looked up, breathed a sigh of relief and reached for her mobile phone.

That sort of thing? The POV changes from Jack to Sarah, but it isn't hamfisted. (er, I don't think)

Colin M


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I found the footnotes in The Amulet of Samukand very annoying, but they were so funny that I couldn't ignore them.

I’ve read often that you should stick to one point of view per scene (or section of scene, when divided by a blank line, as Dee said). That is what I’m trying to do at the moment with my writing, it’s amazing how many bogus points of view crop up when I’m in the throws of inspiration (or desperation).

Also you should identify as quickly as possible who your view point character is for a section. So the reader knows who’s head they’re in.

However, equally important, is who you pick to be your viewpoint character. It’s not necessarily your main character, for instance you might want to convey the emotions and feelings of other characters as they react to the actions or words of your main character. And obviously you might not want to make your murderer the point of view character, if you want to keep his/her/or its identity a secret.

Anyway, what to I know?

Hope this helps,

Grinder

Terry,

Meant to say before, the first person hero POV switching to third person heroine POV happens in Across the Nightingale Floor etc and I found it annoying and bizarre and still can't see what it added to the book.

Andrea, try reading After You’d Gone by Maggie O’Farrell. The POV changes are (IMO) very cleverly handled. It even has the MC in both first and third POV… sounds weird but it works.

I’ve read several novels recently – but it’s Friday night and I can’t think of a title – where there are several characters in POV3 and one in POV1. It seems to work well… at least it does for me…

Give POV changes a go, write something, upload it, and we’ll tell you if it works.

Dee
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Colin, yup, I'd have no problem with that, as long as it didn't happen too often. Grinder, I think that's an important point, that the writer has to flag pretty clearly whose head we're in now; and Dee, I think you're right - the only way is to try it and see whether it works for others.

Thanks all