On my Arvon course last week, the focus was very much on plot-driven novels. My WIP seems to be more character-driven or theme-driven (as are most of the books I like reading). I just wondered if anyone had any tips / recommendations / comments on writing this sort of novel, as opposed to the plot-driven novel?

Michelle

I think the key in any novel, whatever the driver, is change. Character-driven novels are actually character-in-action-driven novels. The plot, if you like, is what happens inside the character, as much as outside, but it's still a plot: their nature causes/changes what what happens to them, and how what happens changes the shape of their nature. But the key words are still 'happens' 'action', 'driven', 'change'.

'Theme-driven', I guess, demands the same, assuming you're thinking of 'theme' in the sense of overarching idea ('each man kills the thing he loves', 'no one is indispensable'. To keep something so abstract driving the story I'd think there needs to be a good strong sense of how the theme develops - the movement, the drive, again. And above all that movement must be embodied in the characters-in-action. Not enough to provide some illustrations, everything needs to be building. And if the theme dominates the story, at the cost of the human fate of the characters, then I think you're in trouble...

Personally, I find the distinction between plot-driven, character-driven and so on artificial, though I know the different kinds of novel they mean. It seems to me that all novels have a plot: what's different is whether what drives the characters to action and keeps us reading is external change or internal change - thriller or romance, if you like. When you ask, 'What does s/he want, what does s/he do to get it, what gets in the way, what happens? How does that change what s/he wants?' all of the wants, the actions, the obstacles, the outcomes, and the new wants, have their internal and external aspects. A book may give you more internal or external, but for it to be remotely convincing as a story they both have to be operating.

Emma

I'm not a big fan of 'theme-driven' - it's a bit 'hit the reader over the head with a mallet' type of book, like anything on the perils of Global Warming.

With Character-driven, I'd say the key was the 'voice'.


- NaomiM

Ah - Emma and Naomi have both said what I was thinking! Even a character developing or changing is forward motion - a character is never a stagnant thing in a novel. And plot doesn't necessarily have to mean car chases and explosions and someone getting murdered! You mention you like reading character/theme driven novels, Michelle - it might be worth sort of 'studying' them to see what happens that drives them forward? I'm trying to think of novels where there isn't much in the way of 'plot' and can't come up with any yet... Everything I think of seems to follow some sort of 'journey' (sorry, hate that word - it's so X-Factor!)
Breaking it down, it's useful to think there should be a point to each chapter too, that each one moves the story forward.
I saw on another post you loved your Arvon week! Hope all the plot discussion was useful to you for your WIP!
JCx

Personally I think it's a mistake to think in terms of plot driven v character driven. A good book needs both.
My own gener is crime fiction/thrillers which you would think of as plot driven but actually it's the characters that drive the plot. Think Morse, think Sherlock Holmes, think Hannibal Lecter. Any of these characters in a story about love instead of death would still be engagning no?
Obviously it's easier to build suspense if the stakes are external and high - another death, the release of a kidnap victim, the end of civilisation as we know it will always galvanise the reader's interest.
But in the right hands internal conflicts can be just as high. The secret is to make sure that it's high enough. This is where I think a lot of novels fall down. If the internal conflict doesn't draw you in with the power of an external one then the greatest sin of all time will be committed: the book will be boring.
HB x

Think Morse, think Sherlock Holmes, think Hannibal Lecter

Personally I'd say that line up gives the range from plot- driven (Morse) to character-driven (Hannibal Lecter) novels.
Morse develops very slowly over the course of the books; Holmes barely changes at all; but Lecter is a well written, complex character who develops from main antagonist to complex protagonist during the course of the sequels/prequels.


- NaomiM

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A selection of books which I think personify Character-driven and 'voice' include A Gathering Light, Mister Pip and I Capture The Castle. Of those three, I think (although I'm only a few chapters into it) A Gathering Light probably has the stronger plot, since it all hangs from a murder story thread.
In comparison, Phillip Reeves' Mortal Engines series (and Pullamn's Golden Compass) is very much plot-driven. The characters are nicely rounded (which is a testiment to the skill of the author), but more like chess pieces, to be killed off and brought back at the whim of the author to serve the needs of the plot rather than their own lives.



- NaomiM

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Mister Pip had an exceptionally weak plot, with most of the novel spent waiting for something to happen. The tension is only sustained by the beauty of the writing and the MC's narration of the minutie of their lives.

I agree with Helen that it is a bit of a false split. Character is destiny, is the old saying. Or in story terms, character is action. What we do is driven by who we are. So a perfect story should marry the two elements so that you don't feel there are two elements, there is only the story. Easier said than done, of course. I watched The Wrestler recently and that seemed a very good example of character is destiny.

Something needs to happen, whether it's internal or external. And to be honest I don't see how it can all be internal. It's only when we have to interract with the world that we are challenged and reveal ourselves for who we really are. When we are forced to make choices by external events, that's when we are revealed. Then, the choices we make affect external events, have an impact on other people's lives, there are repercussions... that's story, isn't it? The clash of characters? All striving for slightly different things and coming into conflict.

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I'd also say that the definition of themes so far is a little narrower than I tend to think of themes. I definitely have loose themes in my books, and they help to shape the book and hold it together. But I don't ever see it as a baldly didactic moral. Theme could be something very soft like 'industry'... or 'fathers and sons' - can't it?

Theme could be something very soft like 'industry'... or 'fathers and sons' - can't it?

I think it is stronger than that. The author is basically taking sides to get a political, legal, enviromental, religious, etc, idea across.

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Assuming you're talking Theme-driven, rather than a general theme is an otherwise Plot- or Character-driven novel.

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But, as Nathan Bransford says (to paraphrase), 'Theme carries neither plot nor characterisation, so it should not be the central plank in your novel'.

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Sorry, probalby screwed that up because someone is sure to say What about novels where the central theme is 'slavery' or 'War.
Basically, avoid preaching to the reader.

Seeing as Michelle (blackdove) asked the question, it would be interesting to see how she defines theme, as everyone else has defined it for her.

I must admit, I don't think in terms of a single theme either, or a theme which has a moral aspect or argument - like Roger, it'll more be 'some aspects of' transgressive sex, say, or storytelling.

But I do agree that a theme can't propel a novel. At least, not a novel I want to read.

Emma

I agree, Emma. I like to think in terms of themes when I'm writing - or rather I like to see what themes emerge - because I see them as the glue that holds the story together, rather than the force that drives it. For me, themes are important in giving shape and coherence. I suppose the writing of a novel is an evolutionary process. A theme may be central in the early stages, and may be something that drives the conception and development - that drives the writer, in other words. But in the finished novel, as something experienced by a reader, those themes may actually turn out to be quite submerged. This way of dividing up a novel's elements is slightly strange to me, I must admit. I see everything as being connected. Theme, plot, characters - all come out of and feed into each other. That's the ideal (for me) anyhow.

Sorry I didn't get to check this thread sooner, I wasn't expecting it to be so popular! I guess by 'theme' I mean the Big Stuff, like family relationships, religion, identity. I agree with Emma that this stuff doesn't exactly propel the story forward, but some novels do seem to be quite 'theme-heavy'. I also think I agree that even in more character-focussed novels there needs to be some action / plot, otherwise it is pretty unreadable.

I loved Mister Pip too! Other books like this (whatever 'this' is) that I have enjoyed are Midnight't Children, Love in the time of Cholera, etc.

I think what I am trying to say is that the plot / character thing seems to be a continuum, rather than mutually exclusive categories. I just wondered if anyone else had written more at the character end than the plot end... I think internal dialogue and conflict is a good place to start (against some sort of backdrop of 'action'.

Sorry if long and rambling, the heat's getting to me!

Michelle

I tend to agree with most other people that theme, for me, rarely drives a novel forward - it's more kind of there underneath and in the background and running alongside. The exception would, I suppose, be highly allegorical works - like The Crucible, say (and yes, I know that's not a novel, but I'm struggling with examples) - or maybe magical realism type stuff where the story is so strange that the theme is more in the forefront as you read - like The Life of Pi, say.

I think most of the novels I read are a mixture of plot-driven and character-driven, with the balance varying between the two.

Rosy x

Allegorical fiction like Animal Farm, could be theme-driven.

Emma

It occurs to me, though, that one of my most successful (in both internal and worldly senses) stories, Maura's Arm, is largely theme-driven. The characters, in a way, aren't terribly important - I certainly didn't try to characterise them in any particular way - and there's very little plot, only a little bit of backstory and a small epiphany. They're carrying what I wanted to say about human bodies and machines, fertility, London, history... Some readers just don't get it, because if you don't see that then there's really nothing to the story.

But it's not characteristic of my short fiction, and I don't think I could power a whole novel on that basis. Maybe a more literary writer than I could pull it off, and it would be one of those novels which doesn't sell in numbers, but has the most passionate adherents.

Emma