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  • Thinking about this and that
    by Rainstop at 14:28 on 12 June 2009
    When writing in the past tense you can either say:

    Ready for the date with Grunhilda, he donned his blue shirt that morning.

    or

    Ready for the date with Grunhilda, he donned his blue shirt this morning.

    or

    Ready for the date with Grunhilda, he donned his blue shirt today.


    When reading published novels I've sometime found the use of today jarring when it refers to a day in the past. Equally, the second option, this, sounds more immediate but less grammatically correct. I've opted for treating each case on its merits and using the one that sounds best or avoiding these sort of references altogether. (Ready for the date with Grunhilda, he donned his blue shirt.)

    Please let me know what you think about this and that in relation to day/morning/afternoon/evening/night. You can't always avoid it.

    ~Rod.
  • Re: Thinking about this and that
    by NMott at 14:43 on 12 June 2009
    First one works for me.
  • Re: Thinking about this and that
    by Account Closed at 15:02 on 12 June 2009
    How about:

    That morning, preparing for the date with Grunhilda, he donned his blue shirt.

    JB
  • Re: Thinking about this and that
    by Rainstop at 15:02 on 12 June 2009
    I think I've given a bad example. Maybe it's a sort of show versus tell thing. "That" sounds very tell.
  • Re: Thinking about this and that
    by susieangela at 15:02 on 12 June 2009
    Me, too.
    'donned' and 'this' just don't seem to go together, not only grammatically but because the 'this' sounds like the author speaking - not sure why. Same with 'today'. But I think it's about order.
    'Today, he donned his blue shirt ready for his date with Grunhilda.' This would be OK if you were differentiating 'today' from some other day, eg:
    'Usually, he didn't think about his clothes. Today, he...'etc
    And 'this' implies we're in the present moment.
    I think if you're going to use 'today/this-or-that morning' it's more effective to put it at the beginning.
    Susiex


    <Added>

    Crossed with JB and you!
    Susiex
  • Re: Thinking about this and that
    by Rainstop at 15:05 on 12 June 2009
    Crossed with you waxy.

    Thanks. Your version illustrates what I mean by it being a show versus tell issue. Yours goes neatly from tell into show.

  • Re: Thinking about this and that
    by Rainstop at 15:07 on 12 June 2009
    And crossed with Susie. God, my internet is so slow, I'm going to kill myself.

    'That's a nice shirt,' said Grunhilda.
    He didn't want to discuss it that evening/this evening.

    And by the way, I wouldn't really use "donned".
  • Re: Thinking about this and that
    by Rainstop at 15:09 on 12 June 2009
    I'm sure there's a point here that I'm trying to get clarity on.
  • Re: Thinking about this and that
    by Rainstop at 15:17 on 12 June 2009
    Crossed with myself.

    Double-crossed.
  • Re: Thinking about this and that
    by susieangela at 15:19 on 12 June 2009
    LOL!!!

    I think what I'm trying to say is, why say when it was unless you need to?
    Susiex
  • Re: Thinking about this and that
    by RT104 at 19:32 on 12 June 2009
    I've wrestled a lot with this one, Rod. I must say that I have come round to always using 'this morning' and 'here' (e.g. "she was excited because the postman would be here soon") and so on, rather than 'that morning' and 'there' - just because it is more immediate - i.e. the story is placed in the character's temporal and physical space, not the author's. But when I looked at books on my shelf, they seemed to split pretty evenly on which way they did it. I think it's a thing you probably don't even notice as a reader, but as writers we tend to get all stewed up about it and tie ourselves in knots!

    Rosy x
  • Re: Thinking about this and that
    by Rainstop at 22:20 on 12 June 2009
    Thanks, Rosy. I'm glad I'm not the only one to ponder this one. Your answer helps a lot. I think I'll go on assessing each case on its merits. Sometimes it's a fine distinction, for example when the scene is in the afternoon it feels more natural to use 'that' morning, since there's a bit of time distance for both the author and the character. As susie says, it's often best to avoid it.
  • Re: Thinking about this and that
    by Rainstop at 08:09 on 13 June 2009
    Having lain awake all night thinking about this, I've come to the conclusion it's another aspect of free indirect style, the best invention since the wheel.