The human face of the monster can be the scariest thing of all.

Exactly - and re Joker's smile - the reversal comes when Batman doesn't play his game?

And yes - lack of conventional motivation can be terrifying - alienation - 'because of the sun' or 'I don't like Mondays.'

'Some men like to see the world burn' - it's still a motive - there is the compulsion to explain - to find a reason?

I still think one of the most dark/horrific scenes ever written is the Titus/ Veil confrontation in 'Titus Alone' - Veil is a monster but we get that glimpse of who he is - and just as Mordor and The Factory are aspects of the same horror - Veil and Gollum share that loyalty to self - because there is no one else who cares.

Vindice has a conventional motive - Iago doesn't?

Fascinating stuff.

Sarah

I have a friend who is a complete nihilist.
He destroys things ..his marriages, his career, other people's career's and from what I can see after knowing him nearly 20 years he has no reason whatsoever.
He has a nice family, he's bright, extremely goodlooking.
Yet he just wrecks things...tis most intriguing to watch.
HB x

Probably not that intriguing to his wives, I'll bet...

Some people don't think they deserve happiness? Some people, in fact, are only happy being sad.

Pop psychology aside, I agree with Sarah's point about that apparent non-motivation being a motivation. Personally, I'm fascinated by what makes good people bad - experience that almost becomes justification. I explored that in Unrequited and found myself doing the same thing to a degree in the new book. In real life, very few people are 'born bad', there is usually some trigger - or scariest of all, they think they are doing good. It all gets very complex when one considers good and evil as moral precepts are simply a matter of perspective. I'm sure Bin Laden thinks America is Satan.

JB

Just found out this thread, so thought I'd put my opinion in.

I think it's important to give the antognist sympathetic qualities so that the audience understands their motives. I'm not saying you should glamorise the villain or their actions, but I hate these villains who are just evil for the sake of being evil. I prefer villians to be more rounded, have flaws and motives which make them human to an extent.