I am trying to develop a techique, almost writing on two levels at the same time. Almost trying to slide stuff by you, the reader. To reader A, it's good drama. To reader B,it's comedy.

e.g.

As they fled through the jungle, the drums beat in the distance. The Latino girl stopped, looking shocked, her eyes showed fear.
"Mongo Santamaria!" she cursed in Spanish, under her breath.
"Don't be afraid," he encouraged her, it's all superstition. Come on, all that's dead now."
"Sé, I know," she agreed. They disappeared into the bush.

To reader A, it's obvious what's going on.

To reader B:- Mongo Santa Maria is a South American jazz percussionist (hence, drums in the distance.) He died in 2003. (Hence, she agrees when he says it's all dead.)

My work is riddled with these things.

Q1 - Do any of you do this?
Q2 - Do I leave it as is?
Q3 - Do I put something more blatant near the beginning, to warn you.

What's the point?

I feel, if I can do this. It will make people read rather than scan.

Hey, if I can write something like.

"He'd never seen Julia out of uniform. It wasn't until the Christmas party he realised she was a very pretty woman."

If I slid that past you? Could you ever attend the book club meeting again?

Have you read Terry Pratchett or Jasper Fforde? They slide quite a lot of stuff past the reader.


- NaomiM

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Maybe the thing to concentrate on is 'if the reader doesn't get the hidden reference, does it still read OK?'

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- knowing nothing of jazz percussionists, I didn't understand what the girl was on about when she used the name as an exclamation or curse, or why it would settle her fears when her companion said it was dead.

No, it's a game of mine. I haven't read a book and I won't until the publisher or the agent furnish me with an answer.

I talked to some screenwriters, I regret I was influenced. I've just read the first three chapters of my sequel - It's crap, succinct, devoid of all style. I hate it! I see and hear to many people wanting to be Stephen King, or Dan Brown. I really want to see how I fair, naked and uninfluenced. - Why you got to be like that? Don't be imagining me naked. What do you take me for? You haven't even taken me out for a drink first!

My added to your added(s). Yeah, it's got to read 'straight'
Previous dialogue speaks of Aztec gods and artifacts, there are lots of names designed to confuse, the character always curses in Spanish, hopefully 'Mongo Santamaria' sneaks in there as a Hispanic expression, like 'great scott' (I hope you never missed that one.)

I simply don’t understand why people who aspire to be fiction writers say they never read novels. Why? It’s like a musician not listening to music, or an artist not looking at paintings. Why close your mind in that way?

Bad Example, I think Beethoven was deaf! I explained in another post. So I won't fully repeat myself.

I have written a novel. I don't read, it's done, it was difficult. It may need a bit of editing.

Asking me to read a book now, is paramount to offering me a lift, two miles outside of Land's end, after I have walked from Johh o' Groats.

The initial reaction from those ten or so who have read my work, I find interesting. The further the reader from aspiration to output, the more they enjoyed it.

A few months ago, when I was teaching myself to write. I set myself an exercise. 1500 words, no names, avoiding inanimate imagery, no dialogue. A friend took my work to a writer's circle without informing them of the parameters within which is was written. One critism was the repetitive use of the words 'look, looked and looking'.

To be frank, the observation troubled me. I've since decided I'll not budge one inch! Why?

The story involved a woman meeting a man on a train, having sex without speaking to him and subsequently wondering why she'd done it. As a witness to said event. What other words can I use?

eyed, spied and a host of others can be read as sexual. Thus, leading the reader to conclude. "She asked for it."

That kind of 'legal' view, helps me develop my own theories.
What constitutes bad grammar within quotation marks?

I now realise my annoyance when writers substitute words for *similar* words to avoid repitition.

Ooops! I was only supposed to have tuppence worth, I've spent the house-keeping now.

Asking me to read a book now, is paramount to offering me a lift, two miles outside of Land's end, after I have walked from Johh o' Groats.

Interesting analogy, Michael, but I would liken it to accepting a map to London, after walking the long way round.

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However, saying that, I find reading while I'm in the middle of writing a novel is distracting, (not to mention depressing because they are so much better than mine) so probably best left until the first draft is finished.

The most useful thing about reading other books is seeing how the authors structure the story.

Interesting analogy, Michael, but I would liken it to accepting a map to London, after walking the long way round

I don't disagree. I'd like to think without the map I found a few side streets and cafes not known to the masses.

All the retrospective advice I've had, I should have ripped the thing up half way through.

I'll still stick to my guns for a while though. Books are great, John Grisham has been waiting an audience with me for almost a month!

I wrote a synopsis for a book 'Fibonaccis Children', after reading it a friend commented it sounded very Stephen King. 'No it doesn't!' I replied, it sounds like me!

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I'd really like to know the favourite line you've written and why.

Anybody?

There's often a lot to be said in favour of sailing your own route and being determined not be blown off-course by unwelcome cross-winds. But you can be the captain of your own ship and still derive advantage from setting off with a map (in the form of books by others). Having a map doesn't stop you exploring the odd inlet or uncharted island. Similarly, it doesn't pay to ignore the advice of local mariners to avoid certain rocks - one should not cave in to any old criticism but, if somebody finds the use of a word or words repetitive, they're usually right in my experience. If, as you say, it's going to need a bit of editing, that sort of input should be welcome.

Good luck with the agents (but don't hold your breath about 'answers'.

Chris

a friend commented it sounded very Stephen King. 'No it doesn't!' I replied, it sounds like me!

As far as plot ideas are concerned there really is nothing new under the sun.

As far as plot ideas are concerned there really is nothing new under the sun.

I'm not totally stupid! Just like my great, great, great grand-daddy. I know the earth is flat and the sun goes round it.

There are only three primary colours, and then there's pantone.

Back to my original point.

“They're not my really my friends, not now, I was just trying to help. I went on to Facebook, set up a reunion party for my old university acquaintances.”
“Clever girl,” he remarked. Claire began pointing people out to him.
“It's good turnout. Carol, Anne, they're here. I went into law, they went into television, now they're back. Oh look, there's Arnie, he said he'd be back and he is.” Another man was trying to organise the group, he wanted take a photo with his phone.
“Eddie, Dan, you two need to trade places.”
“Why don't you go and join them for a while, catch up,” offered Alex. Claire watched for a moment, she squeezed his hand.
“No, I'd rather be here with you. Them and me, we live in different worlds.”
“Go, be the host, five minutes, go and say hi,” he urged. Again she pondered, first looking to the two blonde girls, then to the man taking pictures.
“They're okay, Stephen will look after them, besides it's a bit too bright over there. I don't want to go into the light.”
“Whatever,” Alex knew not to push her.

I think I'm trying to assess my pitch. Originally, I left out Arnie.

My question is... Without Arnie would you have found. Poltergeist I & II, Trading Places, Eddie Murphy Dan Ackroid & Stephen Spielberg.

There is actually method in my madness.

Making references to contemporary events and public figures in literature has been going on for centuries, particularly among poets and satirists.

But these references had a purpose, they were an integral part of the whole, they either added something of significance to the narrative or reinforced a theme.

I'm not sure that just slipping references into the text for the sake of it is anything more than weak word-play.

So to go to your example, what is the purpose of the references to Arnie or Pretty Woman? Do they add anything to the story you are trying to tell?

If not then as a reader I would find them tedious and off-putting.

I got all the references - during a very difficult pregnancy I watched a lotta movies - but to be honest, it becomes distracting from the main story. Indeed in that passage I had to reread twice to see what was actually happening as I was too busy tallying up the clever references.
I think I'm also asking myself why you've done it...
HB x

Even if you're not making a whole clever genre of it, like Jasper Fforde, I see no harm in it at the level of a teeny game for the author and his/her nearest and dearest. I included quite a few jokes in MTLL which were just for people on another messageboard (a few dozen people who'd get the joke) as well as one for my dad. But nobody else would think, 'Eh? What's that meant to be about?' I'm pretty sure they didn't stick out. It was just a private game.

I am also on a bet to include a reference to Ipswich Town FC in all my novels. The first one was set in Ipswich so it was very easy. The second one was set only fifty miles away, so for no discernible plot reason two of the cast go to to Portman Road for an evening game in chapter 13 (there to talk about things germane to the story). In the third book, I cheated - it's just the answer to a question in a quiz they are watching on TV. Biut it's harmless fun. I'm pretty sure my editor hasn't noticed. Or else she just thinks I'm a sad b*stard and is saying nothing. And it did get me into the matchday magazine - a lifetime's ambition of mine, way ahead of publishing a novel.

I also have a bet with a fellow novelist where we give each other silly words we hav to fit into each novel. In my last one, my word was 'aubergine' which was extremely easy. Another crime writer friend of mine puts in names of his friends (as very minor characters) for fun.

Does nobody else, seriously, do this stuff? I just assumed it was normal.

Rosy

So to go to your example, what is the purpose of the references to Arnie or Pretty Woman? Do they add anything to the story you are trying to tell? If not then as a reader I would find them tedious and off-putting.

Your quote

My question is... Without Arnie would you have found. Poltergeist I & II, Trading Places, Eddie Murphy Dan Ackroid & Stephen Spielberg. There is actually method in my madness.

So you've probably answered my question. I can only assume that readers that don't read, need stuff explained several times.

I ask these questions to ascertain who (the reader) are. In Absolution's 387 pages, on p121 Adele says "Seeing as it's quiet can you lot clean the bar, it stinks."
On 163 she's asked "How can you eat Prawn Cocktail crisps, I can't stand them)" to which she replies "Me neither."

My brother, has no clue why Adele left. My friend (mother of three, knew she was pregnant from p121.