I agree with that - I prefer the singles.

But changing tack slightly, what is the convention when your character is talking quite a lot and you want to split the dialogue into separate paragraphs - to make it look less heavy on the page, to add a bit of white space on the page or just to make it easier for the reader to take in.

How do you mark the paragraphs so that the reader knows it is one continuous piece of speech from one character?

John,
I was wondering this too.. I have just left out the last quotation mark previously.. but today I went through and made sure there was some descriptive text in between all the long spoken passages anywhere where it was broken into paragraphs cos I didnt like the 'look' of it ...and wanted it to look right on the page.. again mostly on aesthetic grounds (it was in a lecture theatre so it probably needed that anyway).. distractions .. slides visuals etc

But I would much appreciate it if someone could give a definitive answer too.

Thanks Nell and John for my answering the "x" versus 'x' for speech.

A )

The single vs double quotes question is usually answered by each publishing house in their house style. E.g. Mills and Boon rule is as follows:
Speech should be enclosed in single quotes; but use double within single if, for example, someone is quoting somebody else, or quoting a piece of literature.
E.g. 'I can't believe he actually said "Not pretty enough for me". What cheek!'

Actually, Mills and Boon have quite a useful set of dialogue rules that they like to stick to, including the use of elipsis (...) for a tailing off sentence and dash (-) for an interrupted sentence. Also, only one person may speak in one paragraph, but speecha and narrative can be freely mixed in a single para.

I think for v long speeches, you have to break them up with action of some sort. Let's face it, how often does it happen that someone speaks for ten minutes without any movement or reaction? Even a courthouse speech may be punctuated with pauses, nervous rustling from the gallery, suppressed coughs from the bench... there are always things to describe to punctuate a whole screed of dialogue - the characters feelings if nothing else.

stephanieE

Yes, I have no problem with the points that you covered. And I totally agree that the ten minute speech of a wordy lawyer would look pretty intimidating on the page with nothing else to break it up.

I was thinking of something much shorter than that, but still long enough to look too solid on the page if left as one lump.

If I'm still not making sense (no surprise there, then) I'll try and dig out an example.

Thanks for your help

John

I haven't found the answer to your question yet John other than as suggested - omitting the last inverted comma when you break a speech into paragraph.

In the mean time, I decided I needed a refresher course in punctuation... so looked on one or two web sites. I have copied some rules from this web site, because I thought it might stimulate discussion, and because Stephanie commented on my aberrant commas.

Anyone any comments on the following 'rules'?

http://www.crazycolour.com/os/punctuation.shtml

Basic Rules of Punctuation
The Comma (,)
The uses of the comma are:


Separate a list of items
i.e.: Apples, pears, bananas and grapes are fruit

Indicates a word in apposition
i.e.: The organisation, XYZ Enterprises, sends all members of staff on training at least once a year

Used before or after a participle phrasing
i.e.: Being in possession of a lottery ticket, you may stand a chance to win

Indicate a slight pause
i.e.: We have hardly had a summer in Gauteng, it has been overcast and rainy most days

Separate an exclamation or an expression
i.e.: Oh dear, is that you meant?

Introduce direct speech
i.e.: The speaker said, "The comma is used to introduce direct speech."

Ellipsis
i.e.: Crips may be eaten too frequently; popcorn, too seldom
Used to indicate parenthesis*
(whether it be related or non-related) i.e.: English Word Power, an interactive English language development software, helps to develop ones skills to effectively communicate in English.

Noun: a word used to name or identify any class of persons, places or things

Semicolon (
The uses of the semicolon are:


Separates one part of a sentence from another. The pause is longer than that of the comma
i.e.: The semi colon separates one part of a sentence from another; the pause is longer than that of the comma.

Replaces a connective
i.e.: The Institute of Secretaries strives to provide members with a unique service; ideas, knowledge and experience is shared.

Balances two opposite ideas
i.e.: He who eats vegetables should be healthy; he who is healthy should not get ill.

Colon (
The uses of the colon are as follows:

Used as a quotation
i.e.: He said: "We will close early on Friday."

Used to show a summary or a speech
i.e.: We will summarise as follows: we are all to take care of the way that we conduct ourselves to customers.

Lists a series of items or ideas etc.
i.e.: The tasks that I must complete by Thursday are: type up the minutes of the meeting held on Monday, finalise the farewell arrangements for Mrs. Joans, complete the PowerPoint presentation for Mr. Smith and update the filing.

To show a definition
i.e.: Definition: a statement of the meaning of a word.

Before a reference or a title
i.e.: You are read more about the various punctuation marks in the following book: The Professional secretary's handbook, Houghton Mifflin Company, Boston/ New York

Balance two parts of a sentence
i.e.: Dark of night: light of day.
Full Stop (.)
The uses of the full stop are:

ends a complete sentence
i.e.: The cat sat on the mat.

used after and initial or abbreviation
i.e.: Mr. J. Bradford has an Ph.D.

Question Mark (?)
The uses of the question mark are:

Indicate a question.
i.e.: What's a question?

Express Doubt.
i.e.: Surely you know what a question is?
Exclamation Mark (!)

The uses of the Exclamation Mark are to show:

An exclamation
i.e.: Ah! So much to do, so little time.

A command
i.e.: Stop complaining!

Strong Emotion
i.e.: Waiting in queues really irritates me!

Determination
i.e.: I think I can, I think I can!

Astonishment
i.e.: Wow! That's fantastic!

Irony
ie: There's no sarcasm in that!

Ellipsis (…)

The uses of the Ellipsis are to indicate:

Interruptions
i.e.: As I was saying…

Thinking
i.e.: When I was a younger….The speaker was lost in thought.
(Please note: Here the fourth stop is s full stop and indicates the end of a sentence. The punctuation mark, ellipsis, is otherwise made up of three dots.)

Brackets ( )
The use of the bracket is to indicate parenthesis

i.e.: The use of the bracket is to indicate parenthesis (additional information)

Hyphen (-)

The uses of the Hyphen are:

Carries an incomplete word to the next line.
i.e.: The winners to the competitions will be announ-
ced at the end of April.

Clarifies pronunciation of words
i.e.: The Patent Co-operation Treaty was launched in South Africa in March last year.

Precise Meaning
i.e.: Twenty five-year-olds go to that Nursery School.

Part of a compound noun
i.e.: Do ten press-ups a day to improve your fitness.

Part of a compound adjective
i.e.: The pre-shrunk material is ready to be sewn.

Show stammering
i.e.: The m-m-monster g-g-gave me a f-f-f-fright.

Used in place of "to"
i.e.: A usual work-day is from 08:00-16:30 hours.

Helps to avoid ambiguity
i.e.: The office possesses a little-used storeroom.
(How would the meaning of the sentence change if the hyphen was removed?)

Quotation Marks

Also known as: Inverted Commas or Speech marks
The use of Quotation Marks are to show:


A quotation
i.e.: He said: "We will close early on Friday."

Announcement
i.e.: Notices stating "Silence" are often found in libraries

Titles
i.e.: This page of the web site is known as "Skills Development"

Direct Speech
i.e.: The speaker said, "The comma is used to introduce direct speech."

Apostrophe

The use of the Apostrophe is to show:

Mark a missing letter/s in a contracted word
i.e.: Please don't worry if you can't remember all that you have learnt first time round.

Indicate possession
i.e.: The Personal Assistant's computer has the internet loaded on it.

Dash ( - )

The use of the Dash is to show:

A dramatical pause and that something is to follow
i.e.: It then struck me – practice makes perfect.

To indicate parenthesis (in place of brackets)
i.e.: English Word Power - an interactive English language development software - helps to develop ones skills to effectively communicate in English.

Sets apart a reflection or a affliction
i.e.: It is dreadful to be on the roads in peak-hour traffic – very dreadful indeed.

To show hesitant speech
i.e.: I think I understand – I am not too sure

To demonstrate omitted words.
i.e.: D – I have taken the wrong off-ramp.


<Added>

oops i forgot of course ...

the Semicolon is ( ; ) not (;) smiley

and Colon ( : ) is and not (:) smiley

Andrew

Leave it with me - I'll get back to you.

A couple of weeks??

Can you write a piece that uses each of these once - once only - in the order you have quoted them? Is that possible?

Something to think about for imminent long dark evenings, perhaps. (Or perhaps not!)

Regards

John

John, it might be fun to do that, but it is not going to be right at the top on my 'to do' list. lol

... on writing style, I'm just trying to heighten my own awareness, and if others see things they can use too, then so much the better.

Take one example - the alledged over-use of - 'the question mark'

I was using too many for some people's taste, this is useful feedback. The reason for this was as I was imagining an intonation at the end of a sentence. This is because I can see the characters saying the words.

But by doing that, it may be over-prescriptive - the reader often likes to put their own intonation into the speech on the page themselves, so they can act like the director of a play - Therefore, using punctuation, even when it is gramatically correct - can sometimes be counter productive.

(just one minor thing out of many I have learnt on WW in last 3 months)

Andrew )


<Added>

on a slightly different tack - another rule that comes up often is - it's...

Because ' it's ' is used as contraction of 'it is',

it's - is never used as possessive, it is always - its,

as in ' a gap far too small for its bulk. '

One tip I've picked up and been in agreement with, is that if your dialogue does indeed accurately represent everyday conversation, then it really isn't good enough.

Readers expect something more exciting and/or interesting than the banality of everyday life.

This may mis-interperate the original question, but I think the point is worth making

Darryl

Yes, I've been told the same thing - both about dialogue and the actual story you happen to be telling.

Both need to be somewhat above the normality of everyday life. That isn't what people want to read about, apparently.

But isn't that escapism? (Not that there's anything wrong with that, he added over-swiftly!)

John

I nearly agreed with you on that point Darryl, but on second thoughts sometimes it is necessary to have banal dialogue in a story, but it would still be different from conversation. What I think it probably is in the end, is that dialogue, as opposed to conversation has to be able to convey meaning with every work, has to be economical, whereas conversation can meander along like a stream, head off in different directions which you can't do in dialogue.
I'm glad this topic is running because we can use it as a reference point in criting.

Hope I'm not too late to chip in on this. Personally, I love dialogue and I've been told by an agent (who, nevertheless, still didn't want to take me on) that I do it very well.
I came home from work on the bus this afternoon and watched (I use the word deliberately) two men in front of me having a conversation. It went something like:
"Are you..er..?"
"Aye... been to... said I have to go for a..."
There was about 10 minutes of this before I got off the bus. The things that struck me were: obviously these two knew what each other was talking about and were filling in the unspoken gaps. Mainly though, I noticed how much was said by body language and facial expressions.
These two factors can be conveyed in written dialogue but there is a terrible danger of it coming across as 'telling' rather than 'showing'. It is much more digestible for the reader if the dialogue is expanded to show the body language and, at the same time, the mood of the speakers.

On a separate topic, I must chuck in my twopennorth on its and it's. The accepted form, as I understand it, is this -
its is possessive (as in 'The dog is eating its dinner)
it's is a contraction (as in 'Don't disturb the dog when it's eating its dinner'

Cheers,
Dee.

I agree with you on all points, Dee.

Does anyone have any view and tips on unspoken internal dialogue...the words that are thought but not spoken within the character's head?

I have loaded up Chapter 6 of the Icera Stone
where Erica is alone with her dog.

Having tried vaious ways of conveying her thoughts, some of those thoughts were quite complex, and where they were, one comment was (by Becca) (and I agree) - it sounded a bit like a lecture - so I am looking at this again to make it more reader friendly.

Sometimes she speaks to herself, aloud, sometimes she speaks silently, sometimes I've just stated things with the implication that they are going on in her mind.

In a way it is still a form of dialogue - except it is happening with her head (as we all do as sentient beings)
(I like to think animals do too but I avoided the dog's POV.. phew)

Anyway .. any thoughts? On the best ways to convey dialogue thoughts - those conversations that the character has with themselves?

Andrew )

Andrew

I've struggled with this one as well. These internal thoughts are extremely useful at building up the character but quite difficult to get onto the page!

I have tried using indirect or reported speech for all internal thoughts - Richard thought that he should go now - rather than direct speech - Richard thought, I should go now. I favour the direct version. Long passages or reported speech - even for internal thoughts/dialogue - are hard to read.

One other point - not my idea, but I can't remember where I picked it up from - is to set the internal dialogue out as ordinary dialogue, but then to leave out the quotation marks, thus setting this particilar 'dialogue' as being different from spoken dialogue. (No good if you don't use quotation marks at all, a method favoured by some authors.)

This seems to work - for me, the writer - but how it is interpreted by the reader I'm not too sure.

It also follows, I think, that the internal dialogue should be in the first person, as it would be if the charater were speaking out loud.

Hope this is useful (and makes sense)

John

Yes John thank you -

perhaps writing them as though she were saying out loud her thoughts to herself is certainly the most direct way ..ala Brigit Jones Diary

putting it into first person...

'I think I will just go downstairs, but before I do, I must have a shower and before that I'll sit down on the bed and do some meditation - hmmm... I wonder what I'll make for tea.'

but it does have a prosaic air.. and might work for the day to day stuff but does it work as well for deep intellectual philosophoical stuff? eg...


It was self evident to Erica; many animals were in tune with this invisible power. Was it possible our ancestors had abilities we had now all but lost... in today’s world of noise and confusion, such rare and fragile senses might easily disappear. In only one liftime, the Australian aborigines had lost many skills that had taken generations to acquire. Perhaps when such faculties vanished, they would be gone forever.

translates to -

'I wonder if people are like animals and have similar instincts?'

Hmmm so does adding more complex thoughts in the Brigit Jones Diary form work? .. doesn't quite seem to work for me. But it does make it a tad more friendly though - so maybe freeing up a bit and trying and to mix and match a bit more might be one answer - I'll experiment and see - we all have to find our own voice, and the voices of the characters at the same time too... which is kinda interesting.

A )