As I get towards the end of my first draft I'm thinking of doing a serious cut and paste job.

But . . . I'm not sure how to order the scenes to create a plot that catapults the reader into the next one. I'm also uncertain which scene to start with.

I'm particularly worried about plot as it was the main point of criticism of my first novel when I submitted it to a literary consultancy. They didn't give me any pointers about how to improve the plot, just said there wasn't enough and that I should write something else instead, which I am doing. (See mad rantings on other thread).

Do any of you wise folk have any suggestions or sources that could help?

Thanks, Rod.

Hi Rod,

It's almost impossible to advise without reading the whole thing. Think I recommended two books by wwmail to you - Sol Stein's Solutions for Novelists, and Jack Hodgins' A Passion For Narrative which has the most effective essay on structure in it that I've ever read.

John Braine also has strong advice which has stayed in my brain even though my copy of his book was nicked years ago. Each chapter must move the plot on and end on a strong hook which makes the reader want to turn the page. Doesn't mean the hook is answered in the next chapter, but it keeps the forward momentum. But his best advice is that you should tell your story as if you've just heard the exciting gossipy news of it and can't wait to pass it on to a friend who is discerning and will appreciate all the juicy nuances and details. I'm embroidering/ad libbing here on what he actually said. But I think that advice really helps one focus on the story at hand and how to tell it. It sorts out the padding from the thrust of the narrative.




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And another thing

I'd aim for the simplest of plots. A straightforward, narrative unfolding with as little back-story as possible. Simply because they are so hard to shape. I've just read Notes From An Exhibition by Patrick Gale. His structure is so complex it almost doesn't come off. It almost obscures a tremendous story by playing it down so firmly. He's an immensely accomplished writer - I wouldn't go for something as complicated as that (several viewpoint spanning several years, dotting about the narrative timelines, showing sometimes direct impact of action and sometimes almost negligible shifts.)

You could also reread a few of your favourite books purely to examine how they are structured. Choose the one with the simplest structure and see how far you can match your own story to that structure - the mirroring won't hold forever, but it can be a useful exercise to see how outstanding authors serve up the information. Where they withhold it, when they reveal it, what they do in between to add tension etc.

Hi Susannah,

I have John Braine and Sol Stein. I'll have another browse through them both. I have to say that I found Sol Stein's "I am bloody great" style more than slightly off-putting, but he does have some good points to make.

I'll try to get hold of Jack Hodgins. Sounds useful.

I like what you say about simplicity. My fear is that it's too straightforward at the moment. I've drafted it as it happened. But then again, most of my favourite books have simple structures.

What a wonderful day, by the way. It's almost too hot in my summer house, and I've laid down about three thousand words already today. Even found one scene that I'd already written - that feels like free words and takes today's total to almost five thousand.

Never mind the quality!

Rod.

I have to say that I found Sol Stein's "I am bloody great" style more than slightly off-putting

- very good, and more than a little true, but it is a good book - although very American in its approach. The alternating chapters style is very suitable to thrillers, but isn't the be-all and end-all. One thing I did to solve this problem was to read a few novels and make very short chapter notes, trying to compress the whole novel down to a simple plan that fits into one or two pages. It's a good way to spot the forumula that works for that particular novel, or weak points that you might think could be cut or reworked.

Rainstop you are welcome to post your story outline in the Synopsis and Outline group, if you you'd like any comments on the structure.

- NaomiM

Thanks Colin,

I'll get down to some serious architectural work on the structure. I'll try your tip.

Have now ordered Hodgins from amazon, breaking the moratorium on book buying.

One further thought on Sol Stein - perhaps he's better on "commercial" fiction. By the end of his books on "Solutions for" (I've get them both) you have almost read his big novel, and I'm not drawn to read more.

I'm not sure that Sol is so well equipped to help with the sort of plotless, domestic, boring, pretentious crap that I aspire to write.

Rod.

I am a big fan of Sol Stein's advice of thinking of the chapters in terms of scenes, and at the end of the first draft writing a short summary of every scene to make it justify it's place in the novel. If you find you have too many 'introduce a new character' or 'scene setting' scenes in a row, you know you've got problems

Naomi,

I'm forced to agree. It's why I used the term scenes. I've even written a spreadsheet that lists them, with the following column headings.

What is the scene? (Short name.)
What is its dramatic purpose?
What action do we see?
What does it lead to? (Never take the reader where they want to go)
When does it happen? (Timeline - Don't be scared of time jumps)
How does it deepen/affect/change the characters?
Other questions to consider: (Is it character driven? What does the reader learn?)

Pretty much all of it comes from dear old uncle Sol.

Rod.

Well that's certainly comprehensive, Rod.

I was thinking more in terms of a simple summary, eg. X meets Y. If you have a row of X meets Y, X meets Z, X meets A, you can see at once you're stalling the plot each time, rather than moving it along.

- NaomiM

I think both Rod's and Naomi's approaches bear fruit. For me, the key is the change within the scene: the characters and their relationship must be different, by the end, from where they were to start with, even if it's only different by some realisation, not a hatchet-wound. If they're different, then we'll be wondering what that will mean for the next thing that happens to them, even if it's terribly ordinary, and read on to find out.

For an example based on plotless, domestic, boring, pretentious crap, on Friday night she finds he's gone to bed much earlier than usual, forestalling conversation. That lack of conversation is itself a tension-setter-upper, even if all we see is her resolutely not wondering why he has. If on Saturday a conversation starts about who's doing the post-Saturday-football run, but in the course of it she begins to suspect (even if she says nothing) that her husband's having an affair with her boss, what's it going to be like going into work the next morning? Will she confide in her best but fiery and indiscreet friend at the next desk?... and so on.

Silly example, but you get the idea.

Emma

Thanks for your help, Emma.

Rod.

Interesting stuff. I have trouble with structure too. Will try your approaches.

plotless, domestic, boring, pretentious crap

I love scenes like that if there is a distinct thread of humour &/or pathos running through it. Deric Longden's chapters, where often the only antagonist/protagonists are himself and his cats, are a delight.

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The problem I find with scene summaries is sometimes you end up trying too hard to justify it to yourself. Whereas with a straight forward chapter by chapter story outline it is often easy to see where the structure/plot threads are getting muddled - although it is easier when there is an actual plot.
As for plotless stories, personally I go on the rule of thumb: if a scene bores me it'll bore the reader, so it either has to be cut or rewritten.

I went back to Sol Stein's books last night - now that I'm just about to dive into revisions - and noticed his triage approach. Except, in Solutions for Novelists he only partially mentions it, by way of saying its a great method, and available in chapter 32 of Solutions for Writers. Bit of a swizz that. Good job I've got both. Come to think of it, I think that's why I've got both.