I agree that even if you don't work with one from the beginning, a detailed outline of what you've found you've got can be really helpful. I'm about to start doing one for some published novels that I'm studying, which will be interesting, too...

Emma

<Added>

Meant to say, I know that pairs of WWers (and other writers) have swapped whole novels in the past - it can be fantastically helpful, if you're both on the same kind of wavelength about what you're doing.

This is a good thread. I was thinking the same thing - that it's very hard to get a sense of how a novel is working as a whole - this is why I prefer uploading large chunks rather than small sections. I even think that sometimes crits can distort your view of what works, as you have to read what comes before to get a sense of what comes afterwards. In other words, in my view it isn't possible to judge a chapter in isolation, except if it's the first chapter of a novel, because sometimes the flow of a chapter may be related to what came previously e.g if the previous chapter was fast-paced, it may be appropriate to place a medium or slow-paced chapter etc and there may be things in that chapter that are explained only by reading previous chapters. Having said this, what's the actual worth of a crit then on WW? Is it to expose obvious flaws, inconsistency, stylistic points and grammar? Another related question is in relation to editing - is it possible to over-edit a work? When do you trust what you have written previously without altering it? Is there a point when you must stop tinkering etc..Is this perhaps, the true art of being a writer, not only being able to construct the thing, but also to spot where things don't work - what Hemingway described as the 'bull-shit detector'? Is the original vision the best, not to be fundamentally tampered with, or is re-writing extensively the key to producing a masterpiece?

this is why I prefer uploading large chunks rather than small sections

It does very much depend on what you want to get out of the crit, Traveller. If you simply want an idea whether the plot line is working or not, there's no point hiding it amongst several thousand words of prose. It is better to summarise the chapter, or rather a series of chapters, and upload that, as it is far easier to see if the story threads are working from a summary.
Where as, if you want to know if, eg, the 'voice' is working, you only need to upload relatively small, but relavent, section.
For some reason people rarely, if ever, upload a plot outline on WW.


- NaomiM

I discovered the answer to this question today! The answer is...drum roll...your inner voice. Your inner voice will tell you whether your novel is working or not. Read your work out loud and it'll start to talk to you. Hmmm, that sounds strange doesn't it? Trust what your inner voice says - it's always right, although often very quiet. Sometimes, others will say things that go against what the inner voice says - they are often wrong, although it's important to listen to them to get other points of view.

If you haven't already done so, Traveller, you should check out Susan Hill's CWC blog - She would agree with you 100%, but she also emphasises the point that a writer must read a lot of fiction so they have something to compare their work to, and can then tell the good from the bad.

http://blog.susan-hill.com/blog/CREATIVEWRITINGCOURSE

CREATIVE WRITING COURSE - A GOOD EXAMPLE by Susan Hill on Thu 27 Sep 2007 22:03 BST ...LISTEN TO YOUR INSTINCT...

- NaomiM

Hi Naomi - yeah, thanks for that link - interesting to read SH's pearls of wisdom. Absolutely agree that reading is essential - whenever I read something new that is good, it opens up a new world. I had that recently when I read Brazil by John Updike, totally blew me away. The only thing is returning to one's own work after reading something superb and feeling very inferior!

feeling very inferior!

Oh god, yes. It doesn't half knock your confidence. I'd love to write like Tarry Pratchett or Jasper Fforde, but I remind myself that the novels of theres I'm reading now, have been written while they are at the top of their game.
You have to start somewhere.

- NaomiM