I wondered how people felt, when they were reading a story, and they came across 'whom'. I've got a couple of moments where technically this is the correct form, eg:

'I have to wait for a flag,' said her companion, whom she couldn't see.

But I don't know if it's slightly too stiff and I'd be better off with the more colloquial (nay, incorrect!) 'who'. The general style's sort of neutral, medium register.

Any thoughts?

(Also applies to the use of were in the conditional form, eg 'If I were...' Do you prefer 'If I was...'?)

Speaking as a descriptive linguist, I don't think either is incorrect and in fact I think 'whom' is falling out of usage altogether. So is usage of the subjunctive mood, except in the set phrase 'if I were you'.

As you suggest, it depends on the register of the prose and the effect you want to create. I write in a colloquial voice and I don't use 'whom' or 'if I were' unless I'm making a point of it - I'd have a teacher say 'if I were' but not my teenage MC, for example.

It's your call, really! Sorry if this isn't very helpful.

Luisa

Yes, I agree that it's almost dropped out of use, specially I think when the structure of the sentence means that it's not so obvious that the 'who' is the object, as here. And ditto for 'if I were'.

Agreeing with Luisa, in other words.

Emma

That's my feeling, but I didn't know how general it was. It's one of the points I've raised in my notes, and I look forward to discussing it further with my editor.

i was told once from somewhere??? that you should use 'whom' if you would use 'his' or 'her' and 'who' if you would use 'he' or 'she'

I have to wait for a flag,' said her companion, whom she couldn't see.

so in your example it would be 'i have to wait for a flag, said her companion. She couldn't see her'

therefore it should be 'whom', but i have no idea where i read it or if it is right, i tend to use it as a general rule and it seems to work.

Juliet

Juliet, you're right, you've described a way to check whether you need a subject or object pronoun.

you should use 'whom' if you would use 'his' or 'her' and 'who' if you would use 'he' or 'she'

Although this should read 'if you would use 'him' or 'her'

I'm arguing that the use of 'whom' gives a formal feel, even though it's technically correct. If I'm writing in the voice of my character and I know they would never say 'whom', then I won't put that word in their mouth!

at least i'm right As for what sounds better, i think you've answered your own question. Juliet

I think Lammi still has some doubts... It's not as straightforward as my case.

That's a useful rule, Juliet.

'if I were' unless I'm making a point of it - I'd have a teacher say 'if I were' but not my teenage MC, for example

Do you mean as opposed to 'if I was..'?

Deb

Yes. (Not sure if it's one of the conditional tenses?)

Not sure if it's one of the conditional tenses

{Placing Linguist hat firmly on head}

It's not a tense, it's a mood, called the 'subjunctive'. It's usually used in language of a higher register.

Do you want to know more? I could happily go on all night; ask anyone who knows me...

Oh, yes, go on. Always happy to hear about grammar.

Despite loving the sound of my own voice, I'm going to cheat and put a link up that says what I would have said, only better (!)

http://www.ceafinney.com/subjunctive/excerpts.html

It concludes with:

About the subjunctive, so delimited, the important general facts are : (1) that is is moribund except in a few easily specified uses ; (2) that, owing to the capricious influence of the much analysed classical upon the less studied native moods, it probably never would have been possible to draw up a satisfactory table of the English subjunctive uses ; (3) that assuredly no-one will ever find it possible or worth while now that the subjunctive is dying ; (4) that subjunctives met with today, outside the few truly living uses, are either deliberate revivals by poets for legitimate enough archaic effect, or antiquated survivals as in pretentious journalism, infecting their context with dullness, or new arrivals possible only in an age to which the grammar of the subjunctive is not natural but artificial.

Hi,
Just dropping in to say I love this thread and the fact that people are actually discussing this. I can't help wondering if most of us are over 35?!