Any thoughts on this?

Shakespeare is a good example - I could be wrong, but I think he inspired the above quote - almost all of his plots are taken from other works and then vastly improved upon. I suppose it's the difference between trying to ape someone's style, or taking a plot line/theme/idea and turning it into your own. But is it ethical?

Difficult one.

Harry

I suspect that there are at least three aspects to any writers growth/journey - when young, we imitate; as you develop, a bit of crafty theft creeps in; when the talent matures, an original voice emerges. ?? R.L.Stevenson was perfectly happy to admit that as a young man he 'played the sedulous ape' to the great writers of previous generations.

Love & Mercy,

Mike

Blast! what happened to that apostrophe?

I know - irritating eh? an inverted inverted comma

The term plagiarism comes from the latin plagiurius meaning to kidnap

I think it's ok to be influenced and to be honest about the things which inspire you. Somebody told me the other day that there are only seven basic stories in the entire world, and everything else is just a version of one of these seven. I'm not sure if I believe that, but it did make me think.

Outright robbery really pees me off though. When I see it in films and stuff (the uncanny resemblance say, between the ending of 'The Others' and 'The Sixth Sense), it irritates me. Too many people do the tried and tested. If I'm not bringing anything new to the party, or saying an old thing in a fresh way, I feel like I'm writing drivel.

James x


<Added>

plagiurius - I think I meant plagarius, but I'll check later as I haven't got a dictionary with me and I have to leave the library soon.

James, the seven plots idea comes from Aristotle. It is very hard to come up with entirely new plots, but unless you're going for the Hollywood 'high concept' market, I don't think it is necessary. What is desireable though is using a voice that is very much your own.

Adele.

Thanks for the reference Adele.

James, I've been meaning to read The Poetics Aristotle Poetics for years, and now you've inspired me to get on with it - thank you!

Isn't the quote really saying that it's stealing ideas and making them your own that counts - learning from established authors, rather than imitating things that have been done before? I was wondering whether people out there consciously read novels to learn about how authors use different techniques?

Traveller, I think that reading the kind of books we aspire to write is essential. However, I once wrote a (very bad) financial thriller, and read a pile of books from Dick Francis to Michael Ridpath in a quest to learn how to structure such a novel. The result though was a bit like painting by numbers, with no real heart, so I've given up slavish emulation and am working on developing my own style.

I did, however, study (French & Italian) literature at university, and believe that analysing great works has helped me both as a reader and a writer. Looking at what makes an engaging character or a beguiling plot in novels one admires is definitely useful. Luckily this is the kind of theft that won't land you in the clink!

Adele.

One of the hang-ups I have that constantly stalls me is a hyper-avtive desire for originailty that mainly stems from an over-awareness of what has been done before to the point of being put off because something must have been done before, without my actually seeing it. Even turns of phrase, or word order, that I later see elsewhere, or after writing I realise that I've used something similiar, give me problems. This has been a sort-of benefit in that I try to avoid cliché, but a gammy leg too, 'cos sometimes I can't write anything for the fear that someone else already has done it. Does that make sense? Anyway, as I want to be like Marlow in 'The Singing Detetective' and churn out trashy detective novels this is a huge problem. It's one reason why (when I write) I write off-the-top-of-my-head unplanned so I can claim that any plagiarism is subconcious. It's a really daft head-ache.

I steal where I can. If they are dead, so much the better. If they are still alive ... I have friends in low places.

It's that awful term...derivative. It was good. Do it better. Somewhere in there, your own voice will rise above the hubbub of the crowd.

I hope. I pray. And ethics? Bugger it.

JB