I am working on my rewrite and revision now, and I’m having a hell of a time with grammar. (I even have grammar books here in my office, but they don’t help me all that much.) I use WordPerfect 12, but the grammar checker on it is a hit and miss affair. Sometimes it catches mistakes and sometimes not. (Rather like me.)

Are there any good grammar checker software packages one can buy or perhaps web sites that might help?

Azel

Hi Azel,
If you Google 'Grammar Checker program' there are lots of them, some of which offer free trial downloads.

Good luck!

Zoe

I have a serious aversion to grammar checkers. They might be of some use for official letters or documents, school essays perhaps, but, for fiction they're just a nagging nuisance.

Good fiction is not just about the story or the characters or the setting or whatever. It’s about style. It’s about the way you tell it. And I don’t believe writers can freely develop their own style with some officious little programme telling them they're wrong all the time.

Harrumph!

Dee

Like Dee I wouldn't recommend using a program.

The grammar in your seed msg looks fine. You probably get it right most of the time. IIWY I'd try to develop your own knowledge where you know you have gaps rather than relying on a program to pick up problems.

Or, if you're in a Group here, when you post a piece of work ask people to pick you up on any grammar mistakes they spot - but don't believe everything you're told! If someone queries your grammar then, if you have any doubts at all, check it out with someone you trust.

This Technique forum is a fantastic place to ask questions about grammar as well as other writing techniques.

Deb

I fear that computer grammar checkers are pretty rubbish on the whole (the one on Word always seems to make the most ridiculous, and often just plain wrong, suggestions). I think the only way to make sure your grammar is perfect is to read - and re-read - your story, preferably out loud. If it's difficult to say, then you've probably got your sentence construction wrong.

Dee is right. Style is the key. You certainly don't want some halfwit computer programe telling you what to do. I switch my WORD one off - even for spelling, because I find it annoying to have green and red lines snaking across every damn page.

Jim

I also have mine turned off.

Deb

The little I know of grammar checkers makes me think they have no place in creative writing. (Though I've seen them do good things to ghastly business writing, highlighting the too many too long words and ghastly passive sentences.)

Yes, I have spell check turned off too, though I do use it at the end to pick up typos. You still have to go through it by eye, though, because of homophones.

Reading aloud is good, and reading lots of others' good writing will tune your ear.

Emma

Having said that, David Crystal's Rediscovering Grammar is terrific. Less of the 'you're wrong and I'm right', more of the 'this is how it works and why'.

Emma

I also use the spellcheck at the end to pick the odd thing up.

The book sounds interesting. I dislike books which say "don't do it like this", with examples, because that's a bit like a relaxation tape which says "don't think about your stressful work, your bills, your worries about never being successful and whether your kids are taking drugs". I seem to absorb what I see, which is why my grammar and spelling are mostly good, but show me the wrong spelling or grammar and I feel myself absorbing that too!!

But it would be nice to read a book which explains grammar clearly without doing the above. Like many people of my age I wasn't taught grammar properly at school and have just picked it up, so it would be nice to fill in some gaps (not least in terminology, such as "past perfect").

Deb

I have the idiots guide to grammer - and I should use it more often.

I seem to have an aversion to reading about grammer, but I have found this book quite good - If only I would sit down and read it all the way through.

Grammer checks are hopeless I find. Reading stuff out aloud helps to catch some of the glitches.

I agree with you, but I wanted to use a grammar checker in a different way. (By the way, I also have grammar books on my desk.)

I am trying to compile a check list. I would use this check list on every page after my revision was complete. You might call it a pre-copyeditor check. Here is how my check list reads for the present:

1. Check all punctuation for both narration and dialogue.
2. Check verb tense for consistency (I am writing in past tense).
3. Check agreement between subjects and verbs.
4. Check agreement between pronouns and antecedents.


If anyone has suggestions, I would be happy to hear them.

Azel

<Added>

I do not think I need to go beyond these grammar checks. I want my characters to sound normal when talking, but not ignorant or uneducated. I understand that written formal English is not the way real characters talk, but there has to be limits on how much they stray. I am not sure, but I think my list above is about the bare minimum requirement for character grammar.

Azel

Sorry to swing in with a strong opinion but I really wouldn't recommend the approach you've suggested.

I'd recommend developing your own editing/proofreading skills so you pick these things up yourself. There are things grammar and spelling checkers will never pick up, so you need to develop a careful eye anyway. And I think such software is just as likely to introduce errors as find them - in the same way that spelling checkers can give spurious results, by not having all words in their dictionary that you wish to use, or not all forms of that word. No software grammar checker will understand everything you might wish to write, so you would anyway need to check what it's done. And that's if there even is one which does what you require.

If you want to seek out particular errors, such as tense errors, you could use Word to search for words which may alert you to such mistakes (you'd have to make a decision on each one, but it would help you find them). But I would still just recommend developing good proofreading skills yourself. IMO there's no substitute, and I'd say it was an important part of the skillset necessary for a writer.

I used to sub-edit and proofread professionally and although some people are naturally far better at it than others, you certainly improve with practise.

Another idea is to ask people on WW to specifically point out the errors you're worried about, such as slipping into present tense when you're writing in past. Are you in a group atm?

If you do find a grammar checker which does what you require, though, or if you already know of one, I'd be interested to hear about it even though I wouldn't want to use it. So please let us know.

Deb