I have a question I hope someone may be able to help me with. I am writing a historical novel set in North America during the Seven Years War.

I have done extensive research and two of my most interesting sources are actual journals of two of the combatants who happen to figure prominently in my book.

There are some instances where, in dialogue, I have them say portions exactly as written in their journals. I do this because there is no better way to capture how they spoke than to quote them. Obviously most of the dialogue is purely fabrication based on the facts but there are portions which are copied word for word.

If I was writing a history book I would footnote these. In fiction is this necessary? I wouldn't think it is pliagerism when I am having the character actually say what he said, not what some author wrote.

Am I wrong?

Thanks,

Brian.

In your shoes, Brian, I certainly wouldn't footnote, but I do think, as a courtesy and to avoid any accusations of any kind, you should acknowledge your sources, either in an introduction, or an endnote.

Good luck with the project.

Zoe

Brian, you do need to look at the copyright situation of the text. Copyright exists from when it was published, and if, as can happen, the diaries were found in an attic and published by a great-grandson, then you'd be in breach of copyright to use the words verbatim without permission.

As for plagiarism, I feel quite strongly that in general, bibiliographies and notes aren't proper parts of a novel. But you're using actual words of real people, then, yes, I'd agree with Zoe that you should acknowledge that at the end. Of course, if they are in copyright and you get permission, the chances are you'll have to. I wouldn't personally say anything about it at the beginning - it makes your readers read it differently.

Emma

I wouldn't personally say anything about it at the beginning - it makes your readers read it differently.

Agreed.

Zoe

How big are these portions? If it really is just a short phrase of mundane content (their turn of phrase in saying "pass the beans") then I think that's hardly plagiarism, but anything more and I'd avoid IIWY.

If you acknowledge it somewhere in the book you would presumably have to ask permissions at the time of publication. What if they were refused?

And remember the trouble the Da Vinci Code got into for drawing very heavily on a previous, non-fiction work. I think DVC won, but why put yourself in that position if your book becomes successful enough to draw that kind of attention?

Surely better to use their speech as inspiration but never copy it verbatim. Change the wording whilst capturing the spirit and lilt of their typical speech.

I'm not published and am not a lawyer, so maybe I'm just wrong, but I would think it worthwhile to sidestep possible future problems altogether by using more of your own imagination.

Deb

But plagiarism isn't a crime - at least, not a crime in law, only in morals. The trouble you could find yourself, Brian, would be a charge of breaching copyright.

Yes, DVC won, because - as I understand it - Brown didn't use actual words from the other book, and it wasn't enough to argue that he borrowed 'the architecture' of the story from it. Copyright doesn't protect ideas, only their expression i.e. the actual words used.

If you acknowledge it somewhere in the book you would presumably have to ask permissions at the time of publication. What if they were refused?

Not acknowledging that you're using the actual words wouldn't make any difference - it's still breaching copyright. Of course you could take the risk that it's not spotted, but in a contract you'd indemnify your publisher against there being any copyright material in the book, so it's your neck on the block if it is spotted. Besides, I think it would be unlikely for permission to be refused - more likely that they would request an acknowledgement.

Brian, there must be a Canadian equivalent of The Society of Authors - they'll know what the position is. Of course, if these diaries were published more than 70 years ago (or whatever the Canadian rule is) then you're in the clear anyway, and don't have to worry.

Emma

Not acknowledging that you're using the actual words wouldn't make any difference - it's still breaching copyright.

I wasn't suggesting he didn't acknowledge: I was suggesting that the advice to acknowledge did not guarantee that he would get permission when it came to publication.

Deb

Oh, yes, sorry, I misread you. I see what you mean. Of course, you need to ask permission long before publication - it's too late by then. Generally speaking, you have to set about getting permissions as soon as you sign the contract, and even then it can be slow and tricky.

Emma

Being an as-yet-unpublished writer (unpublished in fiction anyway) I was being shorthandy with my descriptions. When I said "when it came to publication" I meant when you're at the point of a publisher having accepted your book, rather than when it's hitting the presses.

Deb

<Added>

But you're right to correct me, Emma. I knew what I meant but perhaps you weren't the only one who didn't! :)

I still go pale when I remember the nearly-drama I had with a couple of copyright permissions, so maybe I'm particularly jumpy about it. But this new novel is definitely only going to use unarguably out-of-copyright things...

Emma

Thanks everyone.

As the journals are translations I will indeed write and ask permission.

Best do it now before I forget what is what.


Thanks,

Brian.

Plagiarism is a tricky thing to define. I think as long as you're doing something new with an old theme, then it works fine. I mean, I'm currently reading The Book of Lost Things by John Connolly (a damn good read), but it could be argued that his use of tried and trusted fairy tales, and fairy tale telling, is a kind of plagiarism. However, Connolly employs these tales in a fresh and engaging way, so I think it comes down more to universal influence than anything else.

These myths and legends, particularly in this genre, are never truly a sticking point. I've heard it from Neil Gaiman first hand, when asked how he felt about J K Rowling's possible plagiarism of one of his stories (the graphic novel The Books of Magic), that stories are a great big melting pot which a writer should be free to eat from at any time.
Later on, I read King Rat by China Mieville that featured a rather well drawn character of Anansi, the spider god, a novel written quite a few years before Neil Gaiman's own Anansi Boys. A story that featured the same character, though in a slightly different way.

I'm sure that this 'melting pot' attitude can be applied to any genre of writing, and as long as one isn't copying wholesale, I'm sure it's forgivable.

JB

Definitely agree - you need to investigate the copyright!

In specific cases, it really does matter. I asked and was eventually granted permission to use a quote from Tennessee William's A Streetcar Named Desire in my novel. Had I not asked, it may have caused upset with the Faulkner Estate, who are apparently quite sniffy over who uses what from Tennessee's work.

JB

Brian, if it's a translation then it's more likely to be in copyright, probably being more recent.

One option if the original is no longer in copyright is to do your own translation - I got myself out of a potential difficulty (out-of-copyright original, translation still in copyright, translator unidentifiable) by such means.

JB, yes, I've heard the Williams estate is very fussy.

Emma