Anyone know exactly what this is and how it differs from 'true' second person narrative?

You mean you don't know this? You, going on and on about second person, and you don't know the simple difference between 'you' meaning 'You!!!!!' and 'you' as an informal version of 'one'? You can't be serious!

Well, you'd think it would be clear, wouldn't it, but of course it isn't, if you didn't get taught it at school. You'll find most people weren't. And it's easiest to explain by example. But you'll find it's only clear if you write the accusatory style in - well - an accusatory fashion.



Emma

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I'm guessing though. ;) I've never heard the term before.

You know, you'd think I'd know wouldn't you? You say to yourself there's a guy that should know. He should have it down pat, after ragging on about it and all.

There's a difference, by the way, between a true second person narration and what is known as "the first person accusatory," as I recently learned. The latter is easily identified...it's the "you" that people use when they are talking. Imagine a Woody Allen monologue. It's really about him, but he says "you" all the time to indicate a (somewhat) universal experience. The former is much more complicated, as the "you" in the text is definitely not you or me or a universal experience, but the character the story is about. People who like 2nd person tell me it brings the reader much closer to the character than the first or third, but I personally find it distracting.

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I just found the above on a net forum (http://www.tcboyle.ipbhost.com/lofiversion/index.php/t1558.html) by searching in google. No idea if it's right, but adds info to the discussion. I'd never heard of 1st person accusatory before reading your msg.

2nd person is a tough sell (and can be a tough read, imho) but has been done to acclaim, such as in the novel, Bright Lights, Big City. Also, Half Asleep in Frog Pyjamas by Tom Robbins. (2nd person is not to be mistaken for first person accusatory, in which there is an "I" implicit or otherwise.)

The above from http://misssnark.blogspot.com/2006/03/you-gotta-be-you.html, which looks like it might be quite interesting, but I haven't nosed around much yet.

The two different sources seem to agree, I think, so unless there's a widespread misconception that might be the right answer.

Deb

Deb, your first quote's interesting, because it's not what I imagined.

So 'first person accusatory' is what I/one/you use all the time, informally, as in 'So you go along the road and there's a red light'.

In which case the 'true second person narrative' is... not that different, surely. If a novel is written as 'You went along the road and...' I guess it's just using a slightly more distanced version of 'I', and a slightly more intimate version of he/she? Which isn't really very different.

Or have I just not read enough 2nd person novels? Can't say the little I have read makes me want to, though!

(And yes, Miss Snark's well worth a nose).

Emma

So 1st p accusatory is the colloquial form of "one"?

What does "one" really mean anyway? Most of us say "you" when P Charles would say "one". I guess it really means "a person".

"One would feel rather sad in those circumstances"

doesn't mean "I would..." but "A person would...". I think!

Deb

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Whereas standard 2nd person is about a particular person, whom the narrator is mentally talking to.

Interesting discussion.

What does "one" really mean anyway?

I’ve always understood it as a polite, inclusive reference: I, you, they, we, us.

Most of us say "you" when P Charles would say "one". I guess it really means "a person". / "One would feel rather sad in those circumstances"

I believe P. Charles is being respectfully inclusive. Perhaps when ‘one’ is mis-associated with ‘class’ that becomes misunderstood?

Juliet.

respectfully inclusive

I think that means you're agreeing with me, Juliet, but tbh I'm not sure...

Deb

lol, Deb

J.

Never 'eard of it either.

I think people use "one" when they are distancing themselves from a universal emotions. Perfect for Prince Charles who is an emotional cripple.

J'accuse?

I've never 'erd of it, either. Sounds remarkably like some emails I once received, though.