Do you call your story/play/novel/whatever something that's going to introduce the themes? or choose something obscure, unrelated, intended to get the reader curious? I'm asking because a piece of Hilary's writing has just sparked this off in my mind. I spend a long time agonising over titles and for years, only ever used one word titles that I thought were very profound and meaningful. But they were often misinterpreted by other people, as is the way of writing. How do you find your titles? are they blindingly obvious or do they come at the end, when you've finished, and you know what the piece is about? I'm curious!

I loathe having to come up with names for titles, although I do understand their importance. I find it incredibly hard, as I look for the not too obvious intermingled with the not too obscure and get something not too clever! I end up tutting and getting wound up over the awkward simplicity of my titles. Such a simple step, or so you would think!

Titles I decide on what seems right at the time, some blindingly obvious, some first lines and some perhaps mildly obscure, which as can be seen on here doesn't work.

I thought "Waiting For Godot 2003" was profound and appropriate I of course hadn't accounted for Roger who hadn't read or seen the original so it was lost on him and thus perhaps a poor title.

I can see how important a title must be for a Novel or play because you have to enveigle the reader inside the book or theatre but is the same true of a poem?

Because poems are by default short self contained pieces does the title have such significance I sometimes think I shall putlthe titles at the bottom of the page, encouraging the reader to work out what it is called by reading it rather than me telling them and then seeing if they come to the same conclusion/ title as I have.

After all a title is a synopsis of the work in my view

take care
david

And what is a good title? For instance on this site I really like Becca's Finger Buffet, because it made me want to check the story out, and then when I'd read it, I realised the play on words it represents, and it's also describing an actual event.. but then I also like great big sprawling titles like Six Characters In Search of an Author, or Gabriel Garcia Marquez's, which are always really descriptive; Nobody Writes To The Colonel, and The General In His Labyrinth... as opposed to someone like Ben Elton, who favours Popcorn... Stark... etc. (Popcorn is a great title though, has to be said.)

I never get put off by titles, I think it's quite hard to invent a title that would make you not want to read something, that could be quite an art. I guess a title can always be better than the one the writer's found, but you could agonise over that for longer than it actually mattered.

Titles matter little, unless you're planning the title to become a recurring theme in the thing you're writing, or if the title wil be a play on words or something to make the reader expect one thing, only to be delivered another.

I recently had difficulty coming up with a name for The Deer. I eventually settled with the name "The Deer" because essentially the deer has brought about the situation I was writing about, but possibly makes the reader initially believe that the deer is the central character.

But I could just have easilly called it "Drip" or "The Sound of Pain" or something like that. Giving it any of those names would not have made the story any less than it already was, the only possible difference is who might have read it. But I don't really think on that level.

I think titles are very important to the author, but like any piece of literature if the editor says change it then change it you must because, repeat after me - 'the art of writing is... rewriting,' and this includes the title! I love titles that reflect the piece on different levels and make me smile like, dare I say it, 'Jean Puts Her Foot Down.' I had a great time coming up with that one. Usually I know what it's going to be called before I start working on it, but this one only spoke to me when I'd finished writing the outline.

This is all v interesting. I'm so curious to know whether you write from the title or find it afterwards- and bev, yours is a classic. One that always makes me smile is 'Syrup'- anybody know it?- it's a wonderful short film about a man who buys a wig. Fab film, fab title.

Yes we studied Nick Vivian's short as part of our first term on the course I'm doing. Great film and works on so many different levels too. Another great short film is 'The Cutter' by Peter Salmi and Carl Prechezer, I'd urge everyone to see it, it's currently on the film four website, once again fab film, fab title. http://www.channel4.com/film/reviews/genre_archive.jsp?index=T I love that site and spend far too much time watching short films there...

Back to titles - a psychological perspective. They matter in the same way that names matter. Try discussing names for a baby before it is born and see how much weight and what a variety of meaning each name carries for different people. Without the reader being necessarily aware of it every word in the language brings a whole load of baggage (emotional and factual) with it. Even calling your piece 'Untitled' will give it a slant. So, yes, choosing a title is important and can be agonising.

HOWEVER, there is a tendency on the part of the reader, to ignore any part of a text that is separated from the body or main text, so titles in a different font/colour/size may just be treated as a piece of background pattern. (NB the main text on a book cover is the title).

As with the baby. Once it is a know entity, the name/title merely signifies that person/entity and it can be called anything under the sun, and we will enjoy/dislike it for itself.

Is that confusing enough? Cheers, Hilary

Good point. And not confusing at all. I like Becca's point too, about how it might be quite hard to create a title that would actually put a reader off- maybe we should have a go? And I bet there are some. I have a book that has sat around in my reading pile for a loooong time now, mostly because the title irritates me- 'The Song of Names'. I can't say why it does, but it does, and so I've taken against it slightly. It's a bit like the JR Hartley classic 'Fly Fishing'...

It all depends on how you come to a book. If it's after reading a review then maybe the title has little effect.

But if you're in a shop browsing through books then it's essential. As essential as the artwork. No-one and I mean no-one has the time or inclination to read the blurb on the back of every book. Even if you were to pick a ridiculous number, say 100, from an entire book shop. How would you decide which 100 blurbs to read?

The answer is the title. Sure in todays market cover art plays a huge part but it still boils down the the title pure and simple. It has to capture, make you wonder what it's about. Why's it called that? The best titles I find set a tiny spark in the imagination.

I tend to write the poem an dthen try to come up with a title that reflects the emotion or contenthaving a slightly preverse sense of humour I often fail. Or I come up with soemthing which perhaps means a lot to me ref the emotion but doesnt necessarily inspire other readers.

I think the title is there to invite the reader over the doorstep and encourage them to take those first steps in reading your work a type of seduction technique in a few words.

The interesting aside would be can you think of things you have read were the tilte was great and the work not so great or were the title did not encourage you but for what ever reason you did start reading the work and found it fanatstic?

I tend to write the poem and then try to come up with a title that reflects the emotion or content having a slightly preverse sense of humour I often fail. Or I come up with soemthing which perhaps means a lot to me ref the emotion but doesn't necessarily inspire other readers.

I think the title is there to invite the reader over the doorstep and encourage them to take those first steps in reading your work a type of seduction technique in a few words.

The interesting aside would be can you think of things you have read were the title was great and the work not so great or where the title did not encourage you but for what ever reason you did start reading the work and found it fantastic?

You can date a book by it's title often as well. While waiting to see a patient's notes in hospital the other day I was asked to wait in the day room, because the TV was on,.. and I might like to watch it. There was a book case beside me and I wrote down a list of dreadful book titles:
'The Devil to Pay.'
'This rough Magic.'
'That Dangerous Age.'
'A Girl called ....'
Then I made some up because I'd been in there a lot time and realised they'd lost the patient's notes:
'The Sand Devils.'
'Sunset over the Falls.'
'Crocodile Tears.'
'A School of Pink Fish.'