I am currently undertaking the biggest revision of one of my novels after putting it aside for half a year.

My question is, when reviewing things, do you find a lot of clumsy writing? I mean, I have revised this so many times in the past but felt I was getting blind to it so put it aside. Now I come back to it, I can't help but think a lot of it is clumsy. I mean, how much of this is looking for things to criticise and how do you know when to finally leave something alone?

There is a lot that I know is wrong (ie changes in tenses in some paragraphs which may sound easy to find, but, I think, is surprisingly difficult to spot sometimes). However, sometimes I find myself re-writing sentences that 6 months ago I had re-written loads of times already.

Interested in other people's experiences of this.

I'm lucky in that I quite enjoy revising novels and throwing little bits in and taking bits out (unfortunately this novel has been reduced from 75,000 words to 65,000 but that's a different story!).

James

The best thing I found was uploading it up here for people to pick at. It helps loads. I'm doing it now with Invisible Bruises (sorry, a plug there!) which I finished writing May last year. Got on with some other novels and didn't come back to it until a few weeks ago. You're right - compared to how much your writing technique has changed over the months it does look like clumsy writing - but don't give up on it. You're in exactly the same situation as I'm finding myself in - IB initially was over 70,000 but with the editing and cutting etc..it's now down to 66,000 or something. But as I'm going back to it, I'm finding I can write about things that I've skimmed over (pointed out through comments as I upload it chapter by chapter).

So my advice is to upload it and have some comments made - you're sure to find some things said that you hadn't thought of or that you couldn't see because you were too close to the story itself plus reading it over and over!

Good luck with it

Nahed

I've often encountered a lot of clumsiness when reviewing my own work after a spell away from it. I've come to expect it really, as I think the quality of my work is continually improving, and hope to be able to see improvements in my writing every time for a long time.

Cheers WW and IB for your thoughts.

I have recently deleted all my previous posts in preparation for a big upload, however I have a problem in that I think it can only be uploaded in 6000 words chunks and that is a big ask...

Anyway, revision first, which has been keeping me away from this site for a bit recently, followed by the 100th read through!

You can't beat a 3rd party edit. If yr lucky enough it'll be an agent. But I suspect that many of the stars of this site might well contribute an enormous amount of good sense, good structure and good writing.
Best
Sion

Yeah I find revising is a pain in the neck too. I think there's a limit to how far you can revise. If you're constantly improving as a writer you could end up in a state of constant rewrite which would lead nowhere. I think there's also a danger in polishing work too much - the rough edges can be what makes a work attractive and interesting to the reader. It is difficult to know where to stop. Criticism is an important part of revising I think - but it is difficult to find willing participants as most people are busy writing! A fresh pair of eyes can be invaluable in spotting things you may not have noticed and also in relation to technical errors. I think also it's important to separate writing from editing. I had an 80,000 manuscript but had to cut it down to 57,000 after all the editing. It was the most difficult thing to do. But worth it in the end. Best of luck to everyone in the same boat!

I've come to the conclusion that editing is a totally vile thing! Every time I re-read something I find faults so I think the only way forward is to get someone else to look at it objectively. That way, you know if your work is piece of junk or worth beavouring away at! That's my theory anyway...
Sue

I would say that if I re-read something that I had written two hours, two days or two months ago and I felt that there was something not 100% with it, I would have to re-edit it.

Even if I was going to ask a 3rd party to do a professional edit on the piece I would still have to get the piece to as high a standard as I could prior to passing it on. Anything short of that would seem like a 'cop out' to me.

Writing is more than having an idea, slamming it down on paper and then handing it on to some other person to polish it. I don't know that I would be able to say that the finished piece was really mine anymore - too much of it would belong to the other party,

But that's just my view.

And James, don't forget the old adage that a good novel is not written. It's re-written, and re-written, and re-written and ........

John

Hi, I'm a new member on this site.

I love editing ... all that crafting and picking exactly the right words! I wouldn't have thought anyone could produce the best they can do without lots and lots of rewrites.

One other point. A few of you mentioned the word count of your novels. I was under the impression that to get published, a novel had to be at least 85,000 words and most agents/publishers prefer around 100,000 words.

From Daisy2004

Hi Daisy,

Have we met? If not, welcome to WW!

Repeating myself, but I do agree with you about those rewrites.

The word count thing is interesting as well. It seems that it depends on who you talk to. Some agents show interest in novels around the 70,000 mark, but many of the self-help boooks tell you to aim for the 100,000 count. So I guess I don't have the definitive answer - if, indeed, there is one.

John

Jumbo,
I know what you mean - giving something to a third party is a bit of a cop out. However, I haven't been writing for very long so I don't think I have the experience yet to know what's what. I've got to the stage, with my book anyway, where I change something every time I pick the damned thing up. I can no longer see the wood for the trees and I think, if you are writing with a view to being published, there comes a time when you need another opinion. If what I'm writing is total bollocks, then I'd like to know now - and although it will just be another person's opinion, it is the opinion of someone with more experience than me and who knows the market better than me. I've loved every minute of writing the book so it's not been time wasted. However, if I'm never going to get anywhere with it, then I'll put it aside and move on with some of my other ideas. No point in flogging a dead horse.
What do you reckon..?
Sue

I quite enjoy editing and polishing. There’s something very satisfying about finding the right word, or stripping out a bit of previously unnoticed padding.

Last year I had a professional edit done on Paying For The Gallery. I was wildly excited about it at the time but now, with hindsight, I realise it was only one person’s opinion. I’m not saying it was a waste of money – far from it. I learned some very valuable lessons. It highlighted a few weak areas in my writing style in general which I’ve been able to apply to all my work, not only this novel. But I also realised that the novel was far from finished.

The feedback from other WW members has helped enormously, in that it is more than one person’s view. So that is what I would recommend – bearing in mind another current thread about the volume of work uploaded!

As for length… I’ve heard that publishers are generally looking for something around the 100,000 – 120,000 mark (apart from children’s fiction). There is, apparently, a break point at 120,000 where printing costs take a disproportionate rise so it’s best to try to stay below that – at least for the first one.

Dee.

Sue,

I agree there is a difference between giving a piece of work to a third person in the belief or hope that they can give you guidance and help on how to improve your writing style and technique, and giving it to them because you don't like doing the final editing.

I have no problem with the first scenario, but a few with the second!

Best wishes

jumbo

I enjoy rewriting. I guess I'm just dull. If it's a novel, then I rewrite as I go, checking each chapter then ticking it off. Once the novel is completed I go over it again making sure that the early chapters are in the same style and feeling as the last and that there are no obvious loose ends, then I do a grammar rewrite, then I dump it for a few weeks, read the whole thing from start to finish and see if it works. For me, that is the most important one, so yes, I can see what James was saying in the first message on this thread, when I've had time to rest I can look at it with fresh eyes. I found another trick purely by chance. I wanted to save paper so I printed the whole thing out with a tiny font size and a different font. It meant that I really had to read the thing and I found lots and lots that I couldn't believe were still in there.

Writing is fun, but polishing it and tuning it gives me a different kind of kick. Oh God, that sentence makes me feel soooo boring. Maybe I should consider another hobby, base jumping or sky diving.

Colin M

I used to quite enjoy editing but these days it drives me crazy, and it seems to take longer than the writing did in the first place. I feel I have to get every sentence just right. I'm sure I'm taking the "polishing" too far but I don't know where to draw the line and say "that's it"!

Moan over. Now on to something which actually might be useful... I find that it helps when you're coming back to review your work to change your mind set/perspective in some way. The obvious thing (as others have mentioned) is to have some time away from it, but I've found that some other (less time-consuming!) approaches can also be helpful. Like reading it aloud for instance (under your breath if you wish to escape attention!) or *pretending* it's written by someone else (like you've just picked up a paperback and this is what's written inside) or actually changing your brain in some way, like having a drink or two before you read. Not too many though - I do not wish to encourage a life of drunkenness, you understand... (And please note that I only find that alcohol is useful for *reading back* your writing, not for actually working on it.)

These are just a few ideas of things that I find can give me a more objective perspective. They work for me. I wonder if they work for anyone else?

All the Best - Simon