The problem I am having may not be a problem for the rest of you. And I am not sure I can explain it. Time and time again, I need to describe something in one sentence. Sort of like describing a scene in a single brush stroke. I don’t want to break it up into small sentences, because it gets choppy. And, the only way I can connect all these adjectives or nouns is by using the conjunction AND over and over. Or I can just use commas, over and over. Or, I can break it into two sentences, which destroys the smooth flow.

This is usually only a problem when I have three or more adjectives or nouns in one sentence. For example I want to describe a mountain, and I want to tell the reader it has pines, clouds, snow, rocks, streams, etc.

When I start trying to put all these into one sentence to describe the scene in one brush stroke, I am stuck with and, and, and..

Does having too many conjunctions in one sentence bother anyone else?

Does anyone else have this problem? How do you work around it?

Thanks Azel

Can you give us an actual example? Might be easier for us to suggest alternatives.

Dee

Have you tried more use of the semicolon? I love semicolons, for connecting thoughts you want to link even though they could at a pinch stand alone. Less choppy than separate sentences, less repetitive than 'and, and, and'.

Rosy.

The 'correct' punctuation for a list like this is commas, with no comma (usually) and 'and' for the last item:

On the mountain I can see pines, clouds, snow, rocks, streams and goats. On the mountain I can see pines, clouds, snow, rocks, streams and, furthest away of all, goats.

If you use a series of 'and's it has a very different and strong rhythm, which you may not want.

On the mountain I can see pines and clouds and snow and rocks and streams and goats.

Personally, I do use a chain of 'and's occasionally, but let my ear and the 'voice' I'm writing in dictate when. A breathlessly exciting teenager, for instance, might well, whereas a highly-educated and rather formal older woman wouldn't. And, independent of characters, used too often it becomes a mannerism, which irritates the reader and dissipates its force.

One other option is breaking it up. If you have some sort of logic to what goes with what, it has the effect of controlling the movement of the reader's imagination - their mind's eye. If you take them in particular directions, it strengthens the feeling that they're actually seeing the mountain:

Looking towards the mountain I can see pines and streams, rocks and snow, cloud and sunshine, and, everywhere, goats.

Yes, I know the ending is bathetic, but that can be quite fun, if you want to bring your reader to earth with a bump.

Emma


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breathlessly excited teenager

otherwise it sounds like some rather worrying chatline!

Azel, Phillip Roth is a master of the long sentence - get a copy, I'd recommed The Human Stain. I've tried to look for a suitable example with lots of Ands (I know they're in there somewhere) but can't seem to find one right now. He mostly uses commas, I noticed.

Michael Morpurgo uses and to form long rhythmic sentences.

Without seeing one of your examples, it is difficult to comment further, except to say that you would only use commas where you want the reader to take a breath, so for example:

The mountain was swathed in brooding dark green pines and topped by white cloud and crisp snow, and dotted here and there with black rocks and fissured by fast flowing streams.



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No, I can't stand it, I've got to edit it:

The mountain was swathed in brooding, dark green, pines, topped by white cloud and crisp snow, and dotted here and there with black rocks, and fissured by fast flowing streams.

I’m at my day job at the moment. I’ll try to find an example when I get home. Many of your answers have already helped.

I think the main thing I wanted to know is your (preference) for handing this problem. I do think there are times when one needs to paint a scene (a room for example the character has just entered for the first time) in one brush stroke to keep the story moving. This room needs to be described quicky to the reader so they are not floating in space, and the story does not stop with a information dump. Yet, at the same time, I don’t want my description to sound like a grocery list being read. I don’t like the solution of either AND or commas.

Most of the time I usually just cut down the sentence to just three items, and try to sneak in a few more during dialogue.

Thanks
Azel

Are short sentences actually such a problem? Or does the problem arise only when you use nothing but short sentences? Provided they are mixed up with the occasional long one, they can be very effective.

Pines cling to the mountainside. Fast streams batter the rocks. Above the snowline, grey clouds press down, obscuring the summit, threatening new etc., etc.

Short isn't necessarily jerky, so long as there's not too much of it. I think long, comma-separated lists can be a turn-off and multiple 'ands' in a sentence can seem to be an affectation. But there's no rule here. What's right is what works in the particular circumstances.

Chris

Here is a sentence taken from a SIFI book called , TO YOUR SCATTERED BODIES GO by Philip Jose Farmer

The river was about a mile wide, and on it’s other side was another plain, probably about a mile broad and sloping upward to foothills covered with more of the trees and then the towering precipitous black and bluish-green mountains.

He is a well known author, and I have read many of his books. I was studying his style of writing when I came upon this sentence, and it seemed awkward to me. It started me thinking about conjunctions and their uses. He has four ANDs in this one sentence. How would you classify him? Is he a good writer, a lazy writer. Perhaps he just does not care.

I never even noticed this sentence until I started writing my own book, yet I have read this book about three times in the past.

I want to make it clear that I am not bashing his writing. I enjoy his books. I am only using this sentence to open a discussion about the use of conjunctions with long sentences.

Azel

Azel,
I don't know this writer or the context but my initial reaction is that this is quite a good sentence in that the structure and the rhythm of it reflect what it is describing. It starts at the river and then extends to include the plain, the foothills, the trees and stops with a full stop at the mountains as I assume the view it is describing does too.

I think that whether you use commas, ands or shorter sentences will depend very much on the context and the feeling and mood of the scene in question.

This room needs to be described quicky to the reader so they are not floating in space, and the story does not stop with a information dump.

Azel, could you incorporate more of the description into the action, to avoid info dump or the other problems you're keen to avoid? So start with a brief description and build it up as the action unfolds?

Deb