Aparently screen-writers make crap novelists, so I guess that proves dialogue isn't everything.

I've been thinking about this and not one person who has read my novel has mentioned the fact that there isn't enough dialogue in it and it's been read by quite a mixed bunch.

I'm sure this just comes back to one of those rules things mentioned in the Rules of the Rules thread.

In a perverse way this thread has cheered me up because dreadful first novel has way too much dialogue.

Like me my characters talk too much.

Now I'm thinking - OMG - because second novel doesn't have that much I'm stuffed.

One extreme to the other?

Oh well, back down the snake I guess.

Sarah

Tarzan has very little dialogue - sometimes Burroughs only has a couple of words over several pages. I guess it's the way you tell 'em.
But then can you imagine him trying to get it published in this day and age?

Agent: 'Now this part where he says 'Me Tarzan, you Jane?' couldn't you pad that out a little?'
Edgar: 'He is fluent in French'
Agent: 'Oh dear me, no. I can see it's going to need a complete rewrite'.

If every line of dialogue is utterly necessary, and adds something the whole, and if every line of not-dialogue is the same, no one's going to be counting. They'll only start looking for reasons like 'not enough dialogue' if your not-dialogue isn't good enough.

Emma

Not-dialogue, it sounds like the dark matter that binds together fictional universes!

Lol! geoff.

Aparently screen-writers make crap novelists, so I guess that proves dialogue isn't everything.

I've heard people say on WW several times that screenplays are mostly dialogue, but I'd have said there's a hell of a lot more than that. It's just that it's presented differently to in a novel. Many films have large portions without talking, and tv less so, but still significant bits in many tv dramas.

Deb

If every line of dialogue is utterly necessary, and adds something the whole, and if every line of not-dialogue is the same, no one's going to be counting. They'll only start looking for reasons like 'not enough dialogue' if your not-dialogue isn't good enough.

This has to be right.

My characters will insist on stopping the action for a chat or a bath or the not so occasional drink...

And I don't think trips to Asda are usual in high fantasy?

Sarah

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Oh frabjous day - I finally worked out the quotation boxes!

It's interesting to compare this dilemma with other forms of writing such as radio plays, in which you have nothing but dialogue (and the odd F/X) to tell your story with: background, characterisation, mood, action... everything has to be expressed through what people say to each other. It's sometimes easy to forget when you've watched a compelling movie that when it was conceived the writer (usually) provided almost no description and developed it 100% in terms of dialogue (along with some tersely-written actions).

I'm sure I must have read novels with very little dialogue (I'm wondering if perhaps J.P.Donleavy's wonderful comic novels come into this category, though it's a while since I read them) - but I far and away prefer novels which have good dialogue. It seems to me you can say things about a character through dialogue that are almost impossible to achieve through their actions or long descriptive passages.

<Added>

Sorry, I obviously missed debac and NMott's posts on this same subject...

Many films have large portions without talking

Can you quote some examples ? My guess is that usually this is the work of the director, where the screenwriter has just written some simple line like "JAMES BOND PARACHUTES INTO THE ENEMY BASE" and left it to others to fill in the detail! At least in most of the scripts that I've read - this is a good place to find some, by the way...

Of course there are some screenwriters such as Bruce Robinson and Quentin Tarantino who write extremely detailed script directions and character descriptions, but I think this is outside the norm and frowned upon.

And I can't think of many others, but William Goldman at least is both a superb novelist and a superb screenwriter.

The last 20 minutes of Space Odyssey 2001 doesn't have any dialogue.

Gerry, by Gus Van Sant

Plenty of people write both screenplays and novels I admire. Anthony Horowitz. Colin Schindler. I'm sure there are loads if only I could think of them!

Rosy.

2001 A Space Odyssey is an interesting choice. It's extremely unusual, though, in that the film wasn't really developed from a finished script in the normal way (see below). I guess my point was "most films are developed from scripts and most scripts are 99% dialogue".

From Wikipedia:

Clarke's first venture into film was the Stanley Kubrick-directed 2001: A Space Odyssey. Kubrick and Clarke had met in 1964 to discuss the possibility of a collaborative film project. As the idea developed, it was decided that the story for the film was to be loosely based on Clarke's short story The Sentinel, written in 1948 as an entry in a BBC short story competition. Originally, Clarke was going to write the screenplay for the film, but this proved to be more tedious than he had estimated. Instead, Kubrick and Clarke decided it would be best to write a novel first and then adapt it for the film upon its completion. However, as Clarke was finishing the book, the screenplay was also being written simultaneously. Clarke's influence on the directing of 2001: A Space Odyssey is also felt in one of the most memorable scenes in the movie when astronaut Bowman shuts down HAL by removing modules from service one by one... (continues)

It's almost unheard of for a screenwriter to have any influence on the direction or production of a movie based on their script...

I'd also argue that whatever the other merits of 2001 are, realistic characterisation is not one of them. It's a film about ideas, not people.

I don't know the other film. But Gus Van Sant has made two of my least favourite movies ever, Even Cowgirls Get The Blues and the Psycho remake, so I might not like it.

Probably not,

Casey Affleck and Matt Damon, two characters both called Gerry who get lost in the desert. That's about it.

Good Will Hunting is an amazing film. My Own Private Idaho was Ok I think, haven't seen it in what 10 years but the rest aren't up to much. Having said that I quite liked Elephant.