Thanks Colin. I read LOL as Laugh Out Loud, although I used to think it meant Lots Of Love – which confused me many times.

LOL can mean 'lots of laughs' or 'laughs out loud', I think. I tend to think of it as the former.

My family also use it for 'lots of love', such as at the end of a note or email.

Deb

If you see what I mean.

Sorry - I'm a nerd... ;-)

Deb

I understand what you mean about it might appear you were being too coy to write 'fuck' in full. That is a concern. I can see therefore why you prefer to leave the punctuation off the end, thus making it clearer the sentence is truncated.

Deb

As long as we are speaking about swear words in novels, I would like to suggest a topic. As I write my novel, I tend to stay away from swear words that relate to the body. That is, I will use ‘damn; hell; bastard; etc’ , but not ‘fuck, asshole, etc.’

When I am reading a book, swear words that refer to the body sort of annoy me. I just don’t like characters in book I am reading to use them. I hear these same words spoken by people I meet in everyday life, and it does not bother me much, but when reading it’s different. I don’t know why this is.

Is it just me or do other readers have this same view? The reason I am asking is because, I always tend to stop my writing when I need a word like ‘fuck’ and try to find a substitute. I don’t know if I should be doing this or not. Perhaps reader’s don’t care.

Azel

It depends on the context.

If I'm reading a gritty urban triller, I might expect the occassional fuck, at times of extreme stress or violence, although even then I'd prefer not to, as it often comes across as a lazy writer's device to show tension.

But if it's a charming country scene and the character sprawls in the mud, it would be a shock if she exclaimed 'fuck me!'

I was reading one text (unpublished) set in the fenland, and various female characters kept being referred to as 'cows' which completely ruined it for me.

But, what is it that causes a swear 'word' to bother us when reading a novel, but not when it’s spoken in public? (At least, most of the time.)

I am writing a horror novel for young female readers, (14 up) and I do believe those type of words would ‘put off’ a young reader, even if she heard those swear words often at school. But, I could be wrong.

Azel

Re swearwords, I think it depends a lot on whether they're all the way through - in which case the reader gets used to it - or you suddenly use one when the rest of the novel's been relatively un-sweary. That can be a real jolt, in which case it had better be a jolt you meant to be in there. Besides, I'm not sure you need to. If it's written right, you can get the right feel without actually using the words: for example in the soaps, we know the real-life equivalent would be garnished with all sorts of obscenities, but they still manage to write rows which pass the censor.

Emma

<Added>

Thinking about your aversion to body-words, Azel, I think I agree that I do the same. Even though I use those words myself as swears, I think when I meet them in cold print I tend to read them anatomically, which isn't usually the effect the author intended!

I think that writers who splatter their dialogue with profanity are fairly lazy, if it's even throughout the range of characters. To have one swearing where others don't is different. The argument from such writers is always, 'but that's how they talk,' - yeah, but there is a difference between dialogue and speech, and books are not transcripts of real events. Saying that, swearing is part of our language and a powerful resource for the writer. If used in context it can be powerful, but if overused it can be annoying, and appear as nothing more than page-filling waffle.

It's great on tele though!


<Added>

You can tell I've just got up, can't you. Does any of that make sense to anyone but me. Talk about waffle - I'm off to call the kettle "black"

Yes, it makes sense, and I agree with it, so you must be fairly awake! Novels aren't real life, and don't let anyone forget it.

Actually, TV drama isn't real life either, as you realise when you watch any true fly-on-the-wall live transmission, and realise how much of anyone's everyday utterance is basically space-filling noise.

Emma

I meant "swearing" on tele. I always sit up when the announcer says, "the programme contains strong language from the outset"

Question: when a newsreader says, "the following scenes may cause some distress", does anyone ever turn over?

I would always write the swear word if I think the character would say it in the situation they are in. I want to write as true-to-life as possible.

I would probably not choose a main character who effs and blinds all the time, since that annoys me in life and in fiction. However, if a minor character does, or if the main character is driven to swear on a particular occasion, then I think it's important to include it and not sanitise the fiction.

But people like different things from their fiction, of course. I like realism but not everyone does.

Deb

Novels aren't real life, and don't let anyone forget it

I agree. And dialogue in fiction should not be like dialogue in real life, since the latter is meandery and generally dull if you transcribe it.

However, we do want to accurately depict or reflect real life, which is a different thing.

Deb

Just don't use 'frigging'. I hate that word!

why?