And cup cakes

you won't like my wip, then!

Also, who was that famous male author who recently said that he'd only lower himself to write children's fiction if he'd had some kind of brain injury?

Sam, that was Mr Martin Amis.

Didn't Sebastian Faulks say this, or something like it, on his TV series recently?

Nice.

On a slight diversion, I heard someone else - Lee Child? - say that literary novelists shouldn't knock commercial novelists because commercial novelists can do what literary novelists can do, but not the other way round.

Maybe all writers should get on with what they do best and let others do the same.

Maybe all writers should get on with what they do best and let others do the same.

Absolutely. But I don't think anyone here would disagree with that. I think the argument is with labels that are used to belittle different genres as less worthy than others (and by implication, readers of those genres)

I think the argument is with labels that are used to belittle different genres as less worthy than others (and by implication, readers of those genres)

I think this is just a reflection of the tribal nature of human beings. Football fans do it with respect to fans of other teams; political activists do it with respect to followers of other parties; scientists sometimes do it with respect to artists; members of one gender do it with respect to the opposite gender. The list goes on, and so do the arguments. Asking people to stop is like asking water to flow uphill.

Alex

Saturday, I wasn't referring to anyone here.

It just strikes me as petty for well known, successful authors to knock other writers, even if it's by genre, not by name. But, as Alex says, it's human nature.

Hmm you might be right about Marion Keyes Jem.

Well, I have to disagree here. Margaret Atwood's sci-fi is pretty dire compared to Ray Bradbury and Kurt Vonnegut IMO.

Oh, I wasn't saying I liked her SF; just speculating (sorry) about why she doesn't like to be associated with it. Personally, I find her work pretty dull, unoriginal (compared with a lot of SF) and not nearly as clever as it thinks it is. As for Bradbury and Vonnegut - two of my all-time favourites. Having said that, Vonnegut refused a life-time award from the SF community because he didn't want his work to get caught in the 'SF ghetto' as he called it.

On a slight diversion, I heard someone else - Lee Child? - say that literary novelists shouldn't knock commercial novelists because commercial novelists can do what literary novelists can do, but not the other way round.

This is probably a whole different and lengthy discussion. I'm not sure I totally agree with him, but on balance I'd say there's more chance commercial novelists can do what literary novelists do than the other way round. For example, there's evidence in someone like Stephen King's work, at least in brief spells, that it's true. The reason for me is simple: commercial novelists tend to work much harder; they write a lot more and they put themselves constantly on the commercial line. Having said that, I think there are certain things very talented writers can do that commercial writers can't necessarily. I'm thinking of the best work of Kurt Vonnegut - not a prolific and not a commercial writer (although he sold a lot of books) - who had a touch, voice, ability that possessed transcendent qualities; not religiously, but in terms of doing more with words than the sum of their parts.

Terry

I agree about Vonnegut's writing, Terry. Plus he ran with more original ideas in a chapter than most novelists run with in their entire novel.

Yes, and they were ideas that stuck, because while often expressed humorously, they had strong elements of truth. Like his invention of the granfalloon, or false society - I mean, you see these everywhere. And the character in the Sirens of Titan who keeps finding these messages written to him, urging him to wake up, to remember who he is - and later, he finds out it's himself leaving the messages, in the rare moments he isn't in a brainwashed sleep. And you could argue we're all in that position most of the time. Only without the messages!

Terry