No, no Anj - I don't think popular fiction speaks only to the simple in us, rather than the thinker. Yikes!! I believe good popular fiction speaks to the reader at many levels including the deeply philosophical and sentient. Dog in the Nighttime is a perfect example of that. But what makes popular fiction work, and why it is such a talent to be able to write it, is that any reader at any level of interest/understanding/sophistication takes away something from the experience in terms of perspective or emotion. My 13-year-old has not got the same pleasures from reading Pompeii or The Lovely Bones or, indeed, Dog, as I have, but she got something that worked for her, and moved her in a very different way. That's what I meant:-) We should all aspire to write popular works, whether highly literary or lowest common denominator. Discuss:-( sxx

Shyama - perhaps I didn't put that right. It's going to be a struggle, I fancy, to communicate exactly what I meant - what I meant by "simple" was on a human level, a universal level underneath the layers of "sophistication" I've acquired or the patterns of my life that on the surface differentiate me from other people; and working from there outwards to touch me on a variety of other levels, shift my perceptions, move me, remind me that we're all involved in our own struggles, hopefully shed a little light on my own and on my thinking about the world, broaden my horizons. But doing that from the inside out, speaking to me on that human level, rather than accessing me from the outside in, via the conscious, educated intellect.

And I've probably still explained it badly - but personally, I don't think there's anything profound that can't be simply said, and that, for me, is what good popular fiction achieves.

Now, what is "good" popular fiction as opposed to bad? Discuss.

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oops, Shyama - copied in your comment so I could relate directly to it, and forgot to excise it

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Re "what is "good" popular fiction" - don't ask me. Haven't a clue where I'd draw that line. Or whether that line can be drawn.

Like your discussion point, scoops, though maybe unsurprisingly I disagree. Too democratic. What about the silent minority who, unfortunately, will never get anything they like that way.

Write what you want if you want to write because you want to write. Maybe you'll get lucky and someone'll find it after you've died (see Joe Fante's Ask the Dust)

If you want to write to get published, then write only what you think will be published.

If you want to do the balancing act and write what you want AND get published, there is a challenge!

I think that of the stuff I have written it is telling that the stories I think of as mine are those that haven't been accepted to publication. However, the one story that I did as an exercise was picked up by a magazine. Agreed I am not exceptionally talented at writing and so lack of ability has something to do with this, but I also think maybe my stuff is a little too much!

Wow! Nietzche's turned up! Who let him in? I mean, he liked Wagner! Until he went mad that is! And have you ever heard any of Nietzsche's compositions? In fact, story to tell you. One Christmas Nietzsche played one of his compositions to Wagner who just burst out laughing and Nietzsche ran out the room in tears!

Oh, don't hate me cos I disagree. I don't hate you cos you disagree with me. I simply just disagree! Made my arguments to that effect so I am done now.


When you stare in the abyss, the abyss also stares into you.

Just thought I give you a Nietzsche quote to keep you busy

JA,

Oh, don't hate me cos I disagree

. I don't hate you! Don't fret!

Now I really do have to go before Shyama and Anj make me write essays when I should be working on my novel.

Adele.

I knew what you meant, Anj - I was cheating and using your response as a springboard for more thought as this strand seems to have unleashed a passion in us all:-) Why has nobody picked up on the X factor line? Is it forgotten already? Good!! sxx

I hate you now JA, but only coz you slagged off my hero, Wagner.

Now that is a joke, people. Rubbish one, yes, but joke all the same.

As for Curious Incident of the blah in the yawwwwn...

Nell, I'm with you all the way. I think you were lookin for a phrase like heartless wanker, but I'd rather like to giggle over an image of said prize winning author skewered to the lawn with a pitchfork. Hilarious. I like picturing all forms of torture and just laughing. Especially to defenceless animals.

I have to say Ads, I hated that book. Forced myself to the end but never have I been happier to finish a story. HATED it.

So that's that then!

I'm off for the nite now, see ya laters.

Dav, voice of the under(the fork)dog, it's always a pleasure to hear you rant.

Luv n Gordon Ramsay's mini-mince pies (I just scoffed the last one, so yes, I ate all the pies)

Re. mini mince pies, isn't your average mince pie a small pie in the first place? Does that mean that a small small pie is tiny?

The other day I saw a Cardbury mega mini roll - surely that's just a roll?

Madness!

My description, not Big GR's (who might nut me if he heard it). In fact they were left over petit-fours from dinner last night that my friend (who's much braver than me) asked the restaurant to wrap up so I could eat them today. I am a very lucky girl



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petits-fours - my French tutor would certainly nut me for that!

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Or petits fours - I give in!

Or plus fours - mini golfing trousers in a delicate short crust case with a hint of brandy?

You should suggest that to GR

Must dash.

What a strange thread!

I got a free ticket to Robbie at Knebworth last year. I watched The Darkness and Moby and then went home(I'm not a RW fan, but I might have stayed if the concert organisers had not been such greedy W*****s and crammed so many people into the venue that you couldn't even see the grass. Ridiculous.).

My nephew is autistic and I work with teenagers with Special Needs. Autism is one of the most wide-ranging conditions there is. The characteristics displayed by one Autistic person can be completely different from those in another. So quite a safe bet for Haddon to use that as a topic and keep his credibility! I quite enjoyed the book, actually - there was a lot of dark humour in it, and sorry, I did see the dark humour in the dead dog image too.

Would anyone be shocked if it had been a forked human on the lawn and he'd described as that hilarious? Just wondering.

Cath

Dav, 'heartless wanker' is just perfect, so thanks for that! Now I'd better be quiet before I get stripped of my purple robe...

Cath, if you read back you'll see that I did substitute the word toddler for dog to see what people thought. I think that would have caused a reaction if it had been in the article.

Nell.