Fair enough. I preferred Take That myself.

I used to be in the Adam and the Ants fan club, so I guess I shouldn't judge.

Be careful not to play his music too loud in case the local authority comes around and closes you down.

I remember the story about the woman who played 'I will always love you' by Whitney Houston constantly and loudly in her flat and was eventually taken to court and fined for noise nusiance.

I think that's where the American army got their idea for using 'music' during their interrogations in Iraq.

I agree with Adele, I think Robbie Williams is a fine lyricist and has a quirky and original take on himself and his life. I'm not interested in his life or what fires him, but his first three albums had some terrific stuff on them. I worry that popular or populist is somehow becoming associated with mediocrity in some of our debates when, actually, it's the ability to touch people across the board irrespective of their individual limitations, education or social standing... To me, that's a fantastic gift and one I covet:-) As for JK, she's attractive, she had a great background story, and she's deeply rich - the books are just pegs on which to hang stories about her, just as Jordan only needs to sneeze in order for magazines to feature lurid pictures. Amos, re would someone who was brilliant succeed if they failed in the PR stakes, I think they would, assuming that that brilliance pertained to the saleability of the book. If they'd written something wonderful that had no obvious market, that would be a disincentive, but if it was wonderful and would clearly touch a large enough audience to get sales, then I think so. Books are published every week that get no publicity at all - my current romp around the history of contraception is one of these!! shyama:-)

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not interested in robbie's life re the autobiography, not the music.

Shyama,

I worry that popular or populist is somehow becoming associated with mediocrity in some of our debates when, actually, it's the ability to touch people across the board irrespective of their individual limitations, education or social standing... To me, that's a fantastic gift and one I covet

I couldn't agree more Shyama. That kind of snobbery gets up my nose more than Charlie does Robbie's .

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allegedly!

History of Contraception? What's it called? I particularly like the use of the word 'romp'!

I do agree with your point about not demeaning people/things for being popular - I love pop culture. I don't really like Robbie Williams and I don't think he's talented, but I do understand why he sells shedloads and why people like him.

It's a great thing to have people want to play records like Angels at their weddings and/or funerals (I'm being serious here, I'm taking the Pee!).

My real gripe is anything bland, especially music, film and TV, that is formulated just to sell. Pop Idol is a great example of this - One True Voice (bland = rubbish), Girls Aloud (popular = entertaining).

I just hope it doesn't happen too often in publishing.



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sorry, I meant

It's a great thing to have people want to play records like Angels at their weddings and/or funerals (I'm being serious here, I'm NOT taking the Pee!).

Robert McKee's First Commandment:

"Thou shalt respect thine audience."

Too many people in the entertainment (which includes publishing)industry seem to forget that, primarily, I think, because they despise "the masses" and see themselves as superior. I fundamentally disagree with IB (in case you're reading, you old Stoic), in the long run, most people are not fools.

Robbie is playing loudly, but I'm afraid he'll have to go before my friend comes round. He doesn't know who Robbie is (I tested him) so, I'll be putting on the Rachmaninov (which also makes me cry, but mainly because of the Brief Encounter associations).

Enjoy your evening, everyone.

Adele.

Jill Dawson at the new writing partnership has a son with Asperger and said he had got a few basic things wromng. trouble is i can't remember what!

I sat there for a while wondering who Charlie was:-) Amos, it's most certainly a romp though allegedly social history, and called Taking Precautions, but I'm sure you already are:-( Nell, this strand is moving so quickly I keep missing bits. Just saw the question about the toddler on the lawn and I have to say it would depend on context. The dog is part of a disjointed world in which the narrator lives, and so it adds to the peculiarity and complexity of his being and if a toddler played a similar part in a narrative, then I would see it within that framework. To mix strands for a minute, am off to see my daughter, a pupil at one of Brent's largest and most diverse primary schools, sing with the school choir at the local Starbucks where a Frappuccino would buy three Happy Meals for a family on the breadline. Does that count as a cultural mash-up, Amos? toodle pip. sxx

Ye Gods, I pop out for a moment and the thread explodes... I know little about Robbie Williams et al, so can't give an opinion on them, but if Lit Idol really takes off and is eventually televised - and I can see it happening - then I can imagine the cult of personality having a huge bearing on the choice of the winner. Which I guess brings us back to a discussion we had when the first contest was launched.

Adele, I'd say that madness and foolishness are entirely different states of mind; hilarious and bizarre are also completely different and if M.H. had used the word bizarre instead I would never have commented.

Nell.

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Amos, I was thinking of an unknown author when I asked that question, but I think it's probably been answered already.

Going back a little to the dog image, I can't say I like the fact that he found it funny. Recently I had the misfortune of finding that one of my two cats had been run over and killed on a road near my house. She was only 2 and a half and I am heartbroken because, quite frankly, I am an absolute wuss when it comes to my cats. I would say that if he had said something about how seeing a dead cat in the road made him laugh I would want to cause him pain. But I don't think that this would stop me reading his stuff. The fact is that the book is brilliant, regardless of where is comes from.

Autism is a strange illness and it is portrayed very well in this book. however I would warn against thinking that all autistic people are like this. My mum works with mentally handicapped children and she recently had to look after a group of autistic children and, more than curiosities, they are hard work for the parents and need looking after more than they need being made a show of.

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PS (BEWARE CLOSED MIND AHEAD) ROBBIE WILLIAMS IS SHITE AND ANNOYS ME TO HELL! That's when I can be arsed to think about it, which, mericifully, is only when he appears on my telly (at which point I usually shout or turn over).

Of course, just my opinion but I AM RIGHT, I TELL YOU! EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG! HA! ;o)

James, you're obviously in a very reasonable state of mind re Robbie

Coming back to the book "Feel" - I read it because I saw a review that said it was the most fascinating insight into modern celebrity you'll come across - and it is. Robbie Williams didn't actually write any of it - I assume his claim to co-authorship is because he let Chris Heath shadow him for a year or so. I had already assumed being a celebrity was a bizarre experience, but I had no idea just how bizarre. When I'd finished it I passed it to my husband - who would die before he'd open Hello magazine - and he was riveted. I'd recommend it.

Re Robbie: talent? I'm with Adele & Scoops. Seems to me he's from the old-school of all-round entertainer with a gift (dare I say genius) for performance - who can also (co)-write a decent tune that touches people across the spectrum, sing well enough to carry it and dance to it too. Plenty talent enough for me to take my hat off to him.

(Incidentally, reading the book, the thing that surprised me - and my husband - is that he's a really witty guy.)

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See what you've done? I don't actually own any of Robbie's stuff, but now I've gone downloaded She's The One. The oxygen of publicity at work ...

As we're all cooing about Robbie - I was told by an editor mate of mine who met him at a party that he whispered some of his poetry in her ear and it was sublime (the poetry that is). Have him washed and bring him to my tent:-) xx

Let's just point out that no, not all of us!

I was jesting re Robbie above, but if I am honest I don't understand it. He is mediocre, his talent for showmanship just makes me turn the channel over, his penmanship (songmanship) is very Chris de Burgh. Which reminds me of an article in the Guardian which said that the danger of aspiring to timelessness is that you end of sounding like Cliff Richard with no ability to incite feelings in people and that really is Robbie to me. Honestly. I don't hate his music, neither do I like it. It is simply there; it doesn't have anything to say.

Take Angels for example...It is music by numbers, lyrics by numbers. It is just there and doesn't anger me, excite me, or make me want to listen to the song again straight away. I would advise that you to straight away go and listen to Angels by RW and then Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley (a cover of a Leonard Cohen song). Superb. Or Jonny Cash's cover of an Nine Inch Nails song 'Hurt'. Superb.

Or go and listen to the new Bjork album - you can hate it, you can love it but it won't leave you passive.

Sorry; but pop music that is just there isn't good.

And I am not a music snob either - I understand that purpose of pop in things like Destiny's Child. or even Jamelia. That stuff at least stirs something up in you. Mr Williams leaves me bored.

My penny's worth and I thank you for this opportunity. It's not RW per se that annoys me, it is bland pop. Surely RW is just the male Geri/ Posh.

But James, I don't always want to be passionate, angry, excited - sometimes I just want to enjoy, and to those who enjoy him, Robbie's very enjoyable. There's a place for that.


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Feel I'm doing Robbie a disservice suggesting he's nothing beyond enjoyable - agree about Angels, but everyone does crap sometimes. Personally I think there's intelligence behind his lyrics, something universal that reminds me I'm only human, speaks to something simple in me rather than the thinker. Which is what the best popular fiction does, but it does it to huge numbers of people, and that's the gift Shyama speaks of.

JA, in Feel (the song), Robbie says,"There's a hole in my soul." Is there one in yours too?

Actually, I played that song to my "Who is Robbie Williams?" friend last night and he was won over. Go Robbie!

Adele.



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Consider the evidence,

"I sit and talk to God
And he just laughs at my plans
My head speaks a language
I don't understand"

That is very far from bland!!!

Mark Haddon to Robbie Williams in three pages - fantastic!

So, what do you think about Steve who won the X Factor Final? Apparently he got booed off stage by the kids at the Top of the Pops party.

Glad to see teenage rebellion is still going strong.