James,
Are you kidding me - or trying to? Ghost writers have been around for generations. During the last century this industry has grown to enormous proportions.

They parade under various names, most of which are such titles as 'Editorial Consultants', 'Editorial Services' and so on; the true ghost writers are relatively unheralded but of vital importance to the industry of 'Celebrity Autobiographies'. These writers usually have close connections with the PR industry, Journalism and, of course, the publishing field.

They are a much needed service since most of the Celebrities are not capable of this writing task, so the challenge is to turn what is really a Biography into an Autobiography.

Len

There are lots of things, like meiosis, that have been aound for longer and I'm just becoming aquainted with! Ne'ertheless, you have enlightened me.

Bye!

James

James,
I agree... in the biological field we can find so many things that have been around since Adam and Eve. In the publishing field I would associate the ghost writers more with a condition of symbiosis.

Len

i didn't enter, mainly cos i couldn't be bothered with the rigmarole! and i truly couldn't envisage them picking me... hardly likely considering what i write and what they are likely to go for. short-sighted possibly but i just couldn't do it! good luck to those that did!

You are (nearly) all being way too naïve in your snobberies and cynicism. I entered the R&J competition because the prize offers a better deal than most publishers would give a first time novelist, were they accepted. I have not sent my entry to any other publishers yet, so mine is not a last-ditch attempt by a desperate loser with ideas beyond her station. I am also not goggle-eyed, as I never watch the programme – I’m always at work. Personally, I don’t care if the competition was being run by Blue Peter or Ant and Dec. Macmillan are still going to use standard publishing criteria in their assessments, and I doubt whether they are simply looking for a chick-lit weepy to ‘please the punters’! I consider myself a serious writer – I write all the time, I have been told I’m a good writer and don’t boast about it in pubs. However, what is wrong with anyone aspiring to write – and to get published - however talented? No-one owns the written word, and no-one should dictate who should write and who should not. The proof is in the eating – if they put in the effort and are any good, they will get published. If not, what’s wrong with enjoying the dream?? Re. ghost writers, some people have lives worth reading about but lack the expressive capabilities. Others may be dumb celebrities, but some people enjoy reading about them – it adds spice to their dreary days. If people buy these books, then they clearly have a place, as long as they don’t take up the entire market and leave more obscure or good writing on the side-lines.
p.s. No publisher will tell me what to write, or how to write it, I promise!

LP,

I agree with you, for what it's worth. I've always seen it as a great opportunity for someone. Stiff competition, but someone's going to win. I didn't submit anything myself - I am at work on much shorter pieces! - but other WW members have.

Ani

Oh I love a good rant. Nice LP. Here's mine...

I don't really care about R&J or getting on their show, but I did enter the competition because I do care about meeting the agents and editors, which is the real prize. £50,000? Yeah, fine if you want a one off payment, but a career is worth a great deal more, and the editors and agents are the ones who can help you build a career.

I have to disagree with your last line, and one day, if you really are a serious writer, I think you might eat those words. The reason is this: the competition is to help a writer get published; the experts on hand will offer advice to help a promising novelist become a published novelist. If you don't need their advice, then why bother with the competition? You could get published tomorrow if you're that good. You can even be your own agent.

But for the rest of us, there is a simple rule: We dance to the tune of the piper; whoever has the money has the power, and if they know what sells, and offer advice to a promising author, then that author would be very wise to listen. It doesn't mean they control the creativity, but they do control the fine-tuning and making sure that the final product is of a quality that they want to sell.

No publisher will tell me what to write, or how to write it, I promise!

Well, best get up to date on self publishing, cos the mass market don't work like that.

(and editors frown on separating clauses with a mere comma)

Colin M

Serious points, LP. No publisher will waste time on a novelist who isn't going to sell, whether they come through Richard and Judy or the usual, often painful, channels. This site is proof that there are thousands of writers out there who produce work to an extremely high standard. The hard bit is putting together the story that everyone wants to read, and I would guess that at least a quarter of the entries for the R&J competition will be of good quality, so if you make it as far as the long list, let alone become a finalist, it's a brilliant accolade and one worth shouting from the rooftops (preferably while you're spending that fifty grand):-) Shyama

<Added>

addendum: re the ghost writer/editor debate. There is a large difference between the two. The first will write the book for you. The second will close reads your work and tells you what changes are required before it is of publishable quality. Some writers, it is true, are said to have had very hands-on editors, but the only reason a publisher would let his/her staff employ that much effort is because the work would be a shining jewel in the first place - for example, brilliant plot, but perhaps a bit thin on structure or characterisation. It pays to maximise on potential. Unfortunately, with profits pared to the bone, that doesn't happen anymore. It's why new, possibly brilliant, writers who could flourish if someone was willing to spend a week line editing their work, are turned down:-(

<Added>

read, not reads.

<Added>

tell not tells. I need a line editor:-)

I notice no-one complains about ghost-plumbers. All those celebreties out there who fancy their chances at changing a washer, bragging to Lorraine Kelly about unblocking a drain, but when it comes down to it, I bet they all seek professional help. Hardly any of them are capable of installing a new combi-boiler.

So why believe they can write?

Colin M

Whoa dudes, make that beeping sound like a truck and back up. Do I live in my own private wonderland, as in am I the only person who finds ‘your snobberies and cynicism’, the ‘last-ditch attempt by a desperate loser with ideas beyond her station’(the reference to 'her' I find interesting, bit of a gender bias there I think), and the ‘goggle-eyed’ section’? to be a tad hysterical, and even insulting, and really, are you going to say those things to anybody's face, LP, or are you just venting your spleen into the ether, with the idea it does not really contain people, but just ideas. Oh, and Ani and all the rest who seem to enjoy this post, please tell me which of the references I mentioned above you enjoy and agree with the most.

And all this from somebody whoh has posted no work, and given no feedback. So LP if you are such a great writer as you claim(apartently you don't do your boasting 'in pubs' as you seem to so despise, you do it on the internet, which really is far more noble, isn't it - sic!). So now you bigged yourself up, LP, let's see what you got. I will be the first person to salute you if you do.

Hello fellow hopefuls (or not). I found this thread on R&J's own website. Interesting, I thought.

http://community.channel4.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=162603557&f=9506046381&m=843006218

Elspeth

Salty,

I did not appreciate that.

Ani,

I am deeply sorry if I said anything which upset or offended you, or anybody, at any level at all. And upon reading my posting again it is rash and impulsive, as was my original one. The posting was a gut level reaction, kicking out really, because I felt insulted by the tone of LP's posting. And please please I am not suggesting any longer that LP meant it to be deliberate. I think I need to not take myself so seriously, and leave this thread alone, as every time I post here I just dig myself deeper in the...you know what I mean.

Now I am off to hit my head against the wall, and with many apologies. Phew.
Ian

Salty,

You had a perfect right to say what you did. There's nothing wrong with getting a little emotional over something that offends you, if in turn, you offend someone else, you can always right that (as you did) but don't apologise for that post; it needed saying.

Ani, I can see the points in LP's mail that you agree with, and I do too, but Salty was right here to stand up and shout back.

Colin M

I do not like to be yelled at. Period. My own opinion, for what it's worth.