Reading the thread on multiple submissions, a cynical thought crossed my mind. I recently saw one leading agency's request on their website that they preferred exclusive submissions, and needed to know if you had submitted elsewhere. My thought was that if everyone submitting to the slushpile followed their rules, then what an excellent source of firewood to chop up and distribute to existing authors who might be struggling for inspiration.

Must get switch off and get back to work now, but I'd love to hear people's thoughts.

Al.

Al,

Nothing would surprise me, and I had a very similar thought to that also, but what can you do about it? It wouldn't even necessarily be just the agents that insist on exclusive submissions. Copywrite on unpublished work, in my opinion, is very flimsy and bordering on non-existent unless you've paid for it. I think that every writer takes that risk of having their ideas, plots stolen right from under their noses the moment the submission gets into the agent's hands. I guess it's a quest

Hmmm, firewood.

Perhaps I should start writing on pre-processed paper...?

Sorry, my son pressed send while sitting on my lap as I wrote that post...

As I was saying...I guess it's a question of whether you think that the possibility that you do secure representation and hopefully get published is worth that risk.

Nahed

P.S. May a curse of locusts infest their armpits if they do do that...(just as an after thought).

Back already, too hungry to write. I like the locust idea, Nahed, but I'd prefer to seem them colonise rather lower down the body...

<Added>

or even 'see'them - driven mad by hunger, off to the kitchen.

My other thought is that, given my previous experiences of submitting, I think that, whatever an agency's official line is, you should always submit to a named agent. That way, I feel, someone has responsibility for ensuring your work is dealt with in a professional manner.

Back on the slushpile topic though, I read a comment several years ago by the MD of the agency that sparked my initial cynicism. He said that from the many thousands of unsolicited MSs that were sent to him, he'd only ever taken on two authors, so now he refused to look at them any more. Quite a contemptuous attitude, in my view.

An interesting notion this - I actually copyrighted the work I am currently sending out, and have the ref number in the header on each page. I'm not sure how much good this would do if anyone ever wanted to nick the plot, but it reassured me a bit! It didn't cost that much, and I have some piece of mind at least, even if what i have written isn't worth nicking!!

<Added>

oops - god advert for my writing - 'piece' was of course a typo - but thinking about it, it might even be more appropriate!

Hi Al,
I met some agents and publishers once (but that's another story) and they said that everything got read. What happens is, if it hasn't been recommended by someone, it's usually the assiatant who will end up reading it but s/he will pass it on to boss man/woman if it seems promising. Same system for Mrs Publishing House.

You've just got to keep writing, keep trying and keep smiling (even if your teeth are gritted)!!

Elspeth

Heather and Elspeth, many thanks for your comments. I've just come back to writing after several years with my nose pressed against a corporate grindstone. Last time I was writing though, in the mid-1990s, after submitting in the usual way I did manage to find a very well-respected agent via a friend of a friend of a friend. My project didn't work out, though, and I went back to a job that left no time or energy for anything else.

However, looking at the publishing business now, it seems that agents are simply overwhelmed by MSs, which I'm sure is linked to the growth in home computing. It's easier now to produce a MS than it has ever been. I don't doubt that submissions are eventually read, even if it's only by the most junior person in the office. I am still, though, very curious as to whether pieces of them get recycled by an agency's existing clients. From a business perspective, that would actually make good sense. A triumph for the beancounters, perhaps?

I'm a bit confused here on the subject of copyright. I have always been led to believe that in the UK, unlike patents, there is nowhere to register copyright, and that copyright automatically belongs to the author, and the best way of proving copyright is to send a copy of the manuscript by registered post to yourself, which you would leave unopened until such a time that a dispute would end up going to court.

And paying for copyright? What's that all about?

I suppose you could register copy-writing, ie trademarks and catchphrases ("naughty but nice", "the real thing", "The treat you can eat between meals without ruining your appetite" etc)

Colin M

Colin

The method of sending your work by registered post to yourself and leaving it unopened is not a fail safe way of copyrighting your work. The seal on the envelope can never be proven to have not been opened AFTER you had sent what could've been an empty envelope to yourself. What if one steams the envelope open, waits around for a great story/song/poem to steal - prints it out sticks it in the envelope...seals it again and then claim that it was their own?

There is an agency that you can register such work with.

http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/

It's a paid service but I don't know if it's widely used. I think I'll start another thread on this.

Hope the above clarifies how our intellectual property hangs by a very thin thread.

Nahed

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PS I tried to get the post office to stamp the back of my envelope - right on the seal with a date stamp - but the clerk refused. They're not allowed to do that apparently. Very unhelpful.

Can this happen?
Has this happened?
Has a new writer had their ms. stolen and used by another writer? Apart from Hollywood (the film - Story of the Crows).
I would love to know.
Dawn,

I don't trust the registered post method. I used the UK copyright service - around £30 for 5 years, and they retain a dated copy of your work and send you a copyright number and certificate with date it was received by them. I felt it was worth it just in case, as regardless of the quality (might be rubbish as far as I know!) it does represent a year of arduous work for me, and I am proud of that if nothing else, and want to be able to call it my own, no matter how humble
H

You can get tamper-proof envelopes from the post office. They’re about £4.50 each but that includes recorded delivery and enough postage to send a 100,000 word ms. I’ve done it by reducing the font as far as possible (verdana point 8) and printing on both sides of the paper – let’s face it, you’re not trying to impress anyone this time.

These envelopes are strong plastic and are impossible to open without destroying the seal and a post office won’t handle one unless it’s sealed. I’m confident it’s enough to establish copyright but I can understand it might not be enough for some.

I would say that any of the copyright agencies listed in WAYB would be reliable. Alternatively you could place a copy with your solicitor and get a dated confirmation from them. No idea what that would cost though and not all solicitors are willing to do it.

Dee.

If it is just a question of proving the work is yours, then is it okay to put a CD in the envelope with all related documents, ie research notes, chapter breakdown, letters to agents and of course, your main document inside? I know that some people could tamper with a word document to make the statistics read the way they want them to, but most people wouldn't know how to.

If I go to the statistics for something I've been working on recently I can show that it was created in Feb 2003 and I have spent 37443 minutes editing it. It probably means nothing.

My only way of proving the work is mine is my own records, (hard copy, notes etc) I don't bother with copyright because the final work isn't really the final work is it. An editorial team still have to have their input.

And when I send work, I don't bother with registered post. If it gets lost, it gets lost. I suppose my attitude is really bad, but so long as I know that I can come up with other work, I reckon an agent would be better to represent me than rip me off.

Colin M