It's a shame digital books haven't taken off - you could format it as a PDF for nothing and sell it over the internet.

Now that TWH is all shining and polished, are you going to give agents a final try? There is so much hype about self publishing that I think many people lose a sense of perspective and really do believe that self publishing is just a step down from mass publishing, but in another thread there was a true reality check - an no disrespect to Holly B here, because I still think self publishing is a brave thing to do, but when you consider the figures of the two signings - Holly's 30 versus Emma's 1,600 - you suddenly realise the difference between the two is gargantuan.

Mind you, the real golden egg is to self publish and then get an agent come knocking with a list of publishers all ready to outbid each other.

Colin M

It's worth remembering that what's happening to TMOL is very, very atypical. A mainstream publisher taking a punt on an unknown (and yes, I know it's increasingly rare) might print 500-1000 hardbacks, many of which would go as review copies, or come winging back as returns. They'd see how reviews and sales went before deciding on the paperback. And there's very little time or money available for PR and marketing. Self-publishing figures compare quite comfortably with those kind of sums, because the author's commitment doesn't have to be costed in quite the same way. (Though it probably helps not to be trying to hold down a full-time job at the same time!)

Emma

PS:
I tried to start a new thread in this forum for the following but for some reason it wouldn't, so here, adequately relevant, it is:

WWers may remember me posting a link ages ago to a wonderfully clear-headed explanation about how publishers do their sums, and how a mainstream book, doing what appears to be 'well', can still fail to earn out the advance:

Here's Part One, in case you want to catch up:
P&Ls and how books make (or don't) money: part the first: the mass market original complete failure

Part Two is here: the book that does similarly 'well', and does make money:
P&Ls and how books make (or don't) money: part the second: the hardcover to mass market profitable/neutral book

<Added>

And now she's posted another great piece about why it's so hard to get genre-bending novels published by mainstream houses. It's in the context of gay/lesbian etc. fiction, but applies much more broadly

GLBTQ fiction

Thanks for those links, Emma. I'll have a good read tomorrow.

Dee

Colin, I'm exploring a couple of ideas which I’d rather not go into until they’re more fully formed.

As for agents… I don’t know… I still have very mixed feelings about them.

Dee

And don't forget I'm happy with my 30! And today's extra 6 at the Annual Writers' conference - I don't expect to sell more than 150-200 copies of anything I write.

As long as people are happy with what it is, the numbers are - when push comes to shove - irrelevant. What matters is that I'm expressing what really counts to me and other people (however few in number) are seeing that. Surely (without being too pretentious!) that's the nature of art? So - as far as I can see - there's plenty of room for people like me and people like Emma. The world needs both!

)

A
xxx

What matters is that I'm expressing what really counts to me and other people (however few in number) are seeing that.

That's what we all want, really, isn't it, as writers? To be allowed to say what we want to say, to know that it's heard, to tell aloud the stories that spiral round in our heads, to conjure a flicker of what obsesses us in other people's eyes.

Everything else is just the trimmings.

Emma

And don't forget I'm happy with my 30

!

And there'll always be small breweries and vinyards and craft fairs, because lots of people like to have control or an understanding of the process, and sometimes that is more important than the product, which is why I said that self publishing is a brave thing to do as a commercial venture, but it's also a fun thing to do if you're the sort of person who is going to get a big kick out of getting your first ISBN through the post and a buzz from seeing that number as a barcode.

That’s right, Colin. It doesn’t necessarily mean the quality of the finished product is better than the big producers – but it often is.

Self-publishing has developed a bad name because it’s generally perceived as the last resort of substandard writing, the stuff that mainstream publishers reject and, until recently, that was true. When I bought my first WAYB, the 2000 edition, almost all the mainstream publishers would accept submissions direct from writers, in fact I think there was only one who stated in their entry that they wouldn’t. Now, six years on, I don’t think there are any who do.

The collapse of the Net Book Agreement has, as predicted, seen book sales extending into supermarkets and onto the internet at greatly discounted prices – which is good in one sense, that more people are reading now than six years ago. In fact, I heard recently (can't remember where) that reading is becoming one of the nation’s favourite pastimes – as witnessed by Richard & Judy, and the growing numbers of reading groups.

The downside, as we know, is that publishing decisions are now made by accountants. Each novel needs to sell in huge volumes to balance the discounts demanded by these new outlets, so they look at the budgets above any other considerations. They might have 6 or 8 new manuscripts on the table and they chose ONE that they think will pay back its production costs. The other 5 or 7 are rejected. They may be equally as good as the chosen one, possibly even better – they’ve all been submitted by agents who believe they're good enough to publish - but they are rejected because there isn’t room in the budgets for them.

And that, I think, is why there will be more and more writers like myself and Anne, who believe their writing is good enough to publish, but find it doesn’t fall into the tight categories of what the publishers consider cash-cows.

Blimey! Don’t know where all that came from on a Sunday morning!

Dee

I've just been playing the CD of a singer-songwriter friend, and reflecting that fiction writers could perhaps take a leaf out of the musicians' book - and the poets' book too. It's true that it's easier to get someone to listen to a 3 minute song and buy the album, than to a chapter of a book, but most poets make the bulk of their sales at readings, and why shouldn't we try? Maybe as well as trying to cozen the local paper and chat up the bookshop, we should be badgering the people who run the poetry slam in the pub upstairs to give us a ten minute slot, queue for the open mic at the village festival, polish up our inter-extract banter and take the stage at the fundraising church do etc. People are fascinated by writers, as they are by all forms of creativity, and love seeing it in action. 'Books on sale at the door, ladies and gentlemen, and I'd be happy to sign one for anyone who'd like me to...'.

My only caveat is that many writers read very badly, which does their work a real disservice. The poets have to learn to do it adequately, but most prose writers would find a couple of sessions - or even one - with the local speech and drama teacher was money well spent.

Emma

prose writers would find a couple of sessions - or even one - with the local speech and drama teacher was money well spent

i came across this podcast of zadie smith giving a reading followed by a q&a session in the states. i went to see her give a reading in the uk too a while back and she was equally excellent there.

sorry for going off-thread

http://authorsontourlive.com/?p=27

ta
sam

People keep asking me how sales are going. I really have no idea. I think I must have sold some copies, if only to members of writewords!

I agree with what Anne and Emma have said about making a connection with individual readers. When I say that to my non-writing enquirers they look at me a bit sceptically, but I maintain it's true. Not everyone who reads my book is going to get something out of it, I realise that. Susn Hill recently had something on her blog to the effect that for every one person who loves one of her books, there will be six who don't. But it's the one who does that you write for.

Anne, I would like to buy a copy of your book - which method would you prefer I use? From amazon or direct from the publisher?

Roger.

Ooh, thanks, Roger - direct is better! I will ww-mail you!

Many thanks

A
xxx