It's really good to know they will guide you if the MS is promising but could be improved.

Yes, but that doesn't mean you can afford to send it out before it's absolutely as perfect as you can get it: if you have the least twinge that there's something that could be improved, then you absolutely must do it before it goes out. An agent/editor may want some bits done differently, because they can see more clearly than you can, but if it needs work to do them better, they just won't take the book on - they don't have time, and they won't be sure enough that you can do it.

Emma

Merry - I think Emma's advice above is sound. Best to get it as good as you can before you send it out.

Having said that, you may find you get guidance, from an agent or later from your editor - but most of the 'guidance' I've had is pretty vague, it's sometimes just a general discontent, sometimes more specific (like grammatical nit-picking - copy-editors seem to be the worst for that), and generally aimed at the way I treat something, rather than 'remedial' work as such. I've had my agent say 'this bit doesn't sparkle like this other bit', which is just a general gee-up to make me take another look at a particular scene. She knows pretty well that I don't really need any more than that, because she trusts me to be able to write effectively and use my native wit. If she didn't trust me to be able to work at that level, I wouldn't be her client anyway. To be honest I haven't had much at all on my one and only book so far. Christopher Palin the novelist (who has written seven or so) is on record as saying that for his novel 'Repentant Morning' (Jonathan Cape - out now in Vintage paperback) his agent said to him (if I remember right) 'you think Character X is the centre of your story, actually it's Character Y.' That seems to me pretty useful criticism - and of course Mr P saw immediately what she meant and went away and restructured or refocused or whatever (I'm not privy to his drafts). I'm pretty sure she didn't go on to say 'so what you need to do is ....'

Glad you found the comments useful.

Jim

<Added>

PALING, not Palin. Christopher PALING

Jim

I see exactly what you mean... thanks! Trust in your editor - but tie your camel to the tree

Off to find and rope my camel

Jim, yes, your editor's style and mine sound pretty similar.

Emma

There are some StrangeFish. I was recently emailed by an agent who seemed pretty keen to see the rest of my ms. following a letter, synopsis and 1st 3 chapters. They are out there, it just takes a little time.

good luck!

Luke

If you're looking for names, Strangefish, out of all my rejection letters I've received two personal ones:
The Book Bureau agency, Ireland

Piatkus Books (publisher)

They both made me feel that I wasn't wasting my time.

I usually email an agent/publisher first, to check they are currently accepting submissions. That way you also get a name to send your manuscript to - I like to think this helps.

My script is currently with Sheil Land Agency who are supposed to be particulary interested in new writers, methinks.

Sammy

Strangefish,

Any news yet from your Curtis Brown submission? Hope things have moved on for you since your first post.

Kia

Curtis Brown was a no, so I decided that a complete rewrite was in order, which I'm about halfway through now. I've just send the first three of the new one toSimon Trewin at PFD, so hopefully this will get more of a response than the usual photocopied thanks but no thanks.

Ah yes, here we go once more. Sent three chapters to Simon Trewin at PFD on Monday, so he would have received them on Tuesday morning at the very earliest. I received them back with the following message today.
"Thank you for sending me the sample chapters of your manuscript.
On balance, I don't feel that I am going to be the right agent for you - I am sorry but do wish you all the very best. I hope you find an agent and a publisher before too long.
There are as many opinions out there as there are agents prepared to read your work so please keep going. The website www.agentsassoc.co.uk is a useful source of names and addresses.
Wishing you all the best,"

Now get this, it's not even signed by him or stamped with his signature. Just a illegible squiggle PPing Simon Trewin. Not the impression I got from his interview on here.

Now either there's tremdous efficiency at PFD that they buck the three-week norm of other agencies to reply, or it was just another matter of swapping envelopes for my poor three chapters. Doesn't even look like the pages were shuffled about.

And off we go again...

I know it's massively dissappointing, but don't take it too badly, Strangefish. I got the exact same response from Simon at PFD, and was absolutely gutted. He took four nailbiting months to send me the same letter however, which I think is even worse. But now I've got an agent who was amazed that anybody could have turned it down (four others did apart from Simon). And then I got a book deal. It really is so subjective.
Er, this is supposed to be encouraging rather than gloaty by the way.
One of the agents who turned it down (he was a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend etc) said that he quite liked it, but it would take SO SO much work to get it ready for selling to a publisher, that he just couldn't really face it and didn't want to represent me. Then when I finally did get an agent, she sent it out to publishers after a few minor revisions and the interested ones all said they didn't think it needed much doing to it at all. See? No rhyme or reason to it.
Good luck.

<Added>

Apologies for my shambolic spelling. I'm lossed without spellcheck.

<Added>

lost. LOST! I'm also quite stupid without spellcheck.

Oh, StrangeFish, bad luck.

Now either there's tremdous efficiency at PFD that they buck the three-week norm of other agencies to reply, or it was just another matter of swapping envelopes for my poor three chapters.

The other possibility is that your envelope was put on the top of the slushpile, and it just happened to be the day that the stars align and someone dealt with it, starting by looking with yours. (I suspct that some agents do a bit of slush fairly often, others wait until the pile's a health and safety issue and then do the lot.)

Emma

<Added>

If you're doing a big re-write then your novel's obviously still work-in-progress; maybe that shows in the chapters you sent. It's hard to make sure all the changes have really bedded down seamlessly into the whole until you've finished all the work.

So sorry to hear that, Strangefish. Perhaps you can look at like this - Simon Trewin isn't, as he says, 'on balance the right agent for you' and so wouldn't be able to represent you and your book effectively with publishers. However, it's just a matter of finding out who is the right one. And that all takes time. And possibly more revisions.

Kia

This might give you hope when dealing with the cold hand of agent rejections. I went to listen to a Q&A by Lionel Shriver last weekend. When she took "We need to talk about Kevin" to her agent, the agent hated it so much she ditched Shriver. Imagine that for a downer!

Shriver, incidentally, was a breath of fresh air - a fox in the hencoop.

Ikastes

Isn't that bizarre because it is such a good book. Even if you don't like everything about it, it's a real reminder of what writing should be - reflective, intelligent and above all interesting. I suppose the agent was on a different track!

Jane

I suppose the agent was on a different track!

You bet! Going up the down escalator, I suspect.

After she was dumped, Shriver went direct to an editor she knew. The editor read 'Kevin' in a weekend, and took the book.

Shriver said she had written something like seven novels before 'Kevin'. None of them got anywhere. Now, of course, they're all being republished.

She said she was at the very end of her tether by the time she'd finished 'Kevin'. She was one of those rare people you come across who make you think it's worth living.

As for the ex-agent, Shriver said she bumped into her in New York recently. Nuff said.

Ikastes.