Harry, I think it was Johnathan Clifford who first used the phrase. He's done great work in alerting writers to publishing scams, but self-publishing has become associated with it along the way.

Anne,

...the age of the writer/publisher is coming rapidly upon us and we should take advantage of it...

And maybe give it a name? Aquarius has been taken - ideas anyone?

Nell.

I know, it's a pity that self-publishing gets tainted with the 'vanity publishing' tag.

Self-publishers are perfectly capable of arranging their editing and design and printing; what's hard is marketing and sales and distribution. What's needed is the equivalent of - what was the umbrella-brand for independent grocery shops. Spar? Something like that - one body for promotions, big enough to have a bit of muscle for dealing with distributors and book retailers - which a group of self-publishers contract to, or run collectively between them.

Nell, when I said that I'd rather spend the time and effort on writing, it's because I do that much better than I would do the marketing and PR that self-publishing would need. And though I think there's a lot of truth in what you say about the business of getting published in general, my own experience has been rather different, so it isn't always like that.

Emma

Good spot Emma on the Guardian article, I was particularly taken with the following statistic:

50% of all published books with an ISBN (International Standard Book Number) tag sell fewer than 250 copies.

I can see self-publishing and POD working well in a number of cases. Not just non-fiction genres, such as local interest books, as has already been pointed out, but also poetry and short stories, both of which deserve far more publishing exposure than they currently enjoy.

I can also see eventually, the potential for what used to be called in journalism a 'copy taster'. In this case the taster would sift through self published works which may have done some business on the back of the efforts of the author to see if there were any gems and then alert major publishers.

I think the most sensible fiction self-publishers see it as market-testing, so they can then go to an agent/publisher with a bit of evidence of their likely success if they can have backing to go national, as it were.

Emma

The list doesn't include Jill Paton Walsh's <i>Knowledge of Angels</i> which was shortlisted for the Booker prize whilst still self-published. Great book!

Emma,

I think the most sensible fiction self-publishers see it as market-testing, so they can then go to an agent/publisher with a bit of evidence

Possibly. Although if one were to self-publish or start one's own imprint to publish their book, and it did take off, then why would you necessarily go on to line a big corporate companies profits? It depends on the level of success I know, but you could go on to publish other people's books and be the next great (small) publisher...

Hey, and whilst I drift a bit further into dream world, if one was to end up with another J K Rowling or Dan Brown you can buy up that publisher that once turned you down!! *grins* <returns to reality now>

~Thomas

Jill Paton Walsh's Knowledge of Angels

I'd forgotten that. Yes, it's the most fantastic book.

Whatever they were, J P-W's problems are an awful warning to all us about-to-be-published. There she is, terrific writer, long track-record, and still (presumably) couldn't sell it.

Emma

Actually, a lot of self-published authors see it as a perfectly valid business in itself. Surely there's room for us and "them"? It's a big world, after all. I don't think we should be prescriptive (sp??).

I did recently read an article by a self-publisher down south (can't remember where - sorry!), who said she regularly sold about 2000 copies of each of her novels, and had turned down a number of offers from publishers on the advice of (commercially published) writing friends, as the publishing companies would do no more for her than she could do for herself. And all the power was hers!!

On a personal note, I've already self-published my first novel, "The Hit List", which gained some positive reviews and did quite well locally. And I had a lot of fun and learnt loads in the process. If anyone "commercial" takes up any of my other novels at any time, I'll probably go with it, but if they don't, then I'm equally happy to use Goldenford or my own imprint. I'm easy on that count. I don't see the question of "who publishes it" as remotely important. Goodness knows, as Nell has quite rightly pointed out, there's a load of commercially published junk out there which should never have been allowed to see the light of day (and of course in the self-publishing world too). On the other hand, the quality standards of self-published work (Nell's, for example) is excitingly top-notch & rivetting (and, thank goodness, you can get good stuff in the commercial world too ...)

What I am utterly committed to is (a) producing quality work for my readership which they will enjoy and want to turn the pages of, and (b) improving as much as I can so the next novel (and, yes, people have been asking when the next one will be - which is nice) will be something my custom base will enjoy even more.

To my mind, that's the mark of a writer - not whether they're commercially or self-published.

A
xxx

I'm in complete agreement with Anne. I love the publishing process and there's something wonderfully satisfying about doing it all (stopping short of the actual printing) yourself, being responsible to no one, producing something that's exactly as you want it to be. It's nerve-racking and exciting when all those books arrive and just brilliant every time you parcel up an order to send out, almost miraculous when you find you're down to the last box.

So I think I can honestly say that I'd have to consider pros and cons very carefully before getting involved with any of the huge machines (Rolls Royce or otherwise) that are the major publishing companies. Jumping through hoops was never my thing, and the higher they build you the keener someone is going to be to tear you down, not that there's any guarantee of success whoever you publish with. Look at JK and Dan Brown, and who wants the headache and guilt of all that money, although it's good to keep most of the profits rather than a small royalty on each book.

And thanks Anne for the lovely compliment.

Nell.

I am with Nell on this.

Yes it was Johnathan Clifford who coined the phrase 'vanity publishing'. The surprising thing is that he did this as late as 1959/60. So, before that time books were published either by the Author (with or without ancilliary help) or through one of the publishers of that day.

Nell also sums up the challenges and satisfaction of self-publishing in an excellent way.

Len

I've been thinking about this. It’s only those of us in the writing business who are judgemental about self-publishing. The majority of readers don’t give a damn who the publisher is. Do you know anyone who’s gone into a shop asking for the new Orion or Harper Collins? No, of course not. They either go in for their favourite author, or to browse their favourite shelves for something new. And, if a book looks good, and feels good (like Nell’s does), they won’t even think about whether or not it’s self published, because it doesn’t matter to them. All they’re looking for is a good read.

All of which leads me to think that one of the greatest hurdles for self-publishers is distribution. How do you get your book into wholesalers and, from there, into bookshops?

Anyone know? I have a friend who is planning to self-publish her vampire novels, and I'm also thinking of doing the same with one of mine (Paying For The Gallery, if anyone remembers it… one final shameless plug )

Dee

Dee, as long as your book has an ISBN it's available for order from the wholesalers - they just have to order from you first, and of course they'll expect a trade discount of 30%+. It's also available from any bookseller (who'll go through the wholesaler to obtain it).

Re. getting it into shops, the large bookchains have a central buying policy and they're difficult, although not impossible to sell to. I believe one has to telephone to obtain a name and contact head office for the hard sell. Independent bookshops are easier - a visit and a chat with the manager often works wonders in persuading them to place a book or two on their shelves, although in my experience the book itself is scrutinized pretty minutely before they agree. I once stood at the counter while the bookseller read the first two pages before taking a couple.

If you're willing to offer sale or return terms it does help. Follow-up calls are needed to see how things are going too; don't expect a cheque to arrive automatically after a sale as bookshops tend to order through the wholesaler rather than the publisher and may have forgotten where the book came from originally. Another idea is to send single copies as samples to selected booksellers with a covering letter - it involves outlay in packing/postage but again, it gets your work in circulation and may lead to greater things.

But if that all sounds very daunting it has a number of advantages.

1. Your book is out there.

2. You can make a list of stockists on your website.

3. Any follow-on sales will probably be through the wholesaler as that's the way the system works.

4. If you're lucky your book may be picked up and promoted by the dealers who sell to collectors. Their ears are constantly alert for a well-written self-published book from a newcomer who may be the next big thing. Look at Cornelia Funke's first novel and how much single copies were/are selling for. Sean Wright is another author whose books sell to collectors.
One of mine actually reached £739. 20p on Amazon once (I printed the page out or I'd have a problem believing it now), but I'm inclined to think that was some sort of wind-up. Things did get a bit hectic at one point though.

The only drawback to 4 is that dealers rarely touch POD books. They want to find a 1st edition that will eventually sell out, making the books in circulation more valuable.

Hope this helps, and thanks for the compliment.

Nell.

<Added>

This is the single website that saw me through the process the first time. All you need to know and more.

Publish Yourself in the UK

<Added>

And good luck if you decide to go for it! ;)

Excellent point you raise, Dee... and what a comprehensive and embracing reply from Nell - again the voice 'who knows, y'know'.

I have no doubt that many of the comments will encourage more members to have a new view when they seek 'being published'.

Len

<Added>

By the way...
There is really no mystique about a book receiving an ISBN number if one decides to go along the self-publishing path. Further information may be obtained from

http://www.nbdrs.com/index.htm

Great advice, Nell, thank you. And thanks for that link. What a wonderful site. I've bookmarked it for future reference, and forwarded it to my vampire friend. If I do publish PFTG, it will be next winter at the earliest, so that it doesn’t tread on the coat-tails of The Winter House which is being published in July. PFTG is set in a hot summer, so maybe there’s some screwed logic in publishing it in the winter!

Dee

Another good article on LuLu and other kinds of self-publishing here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-2073717,00.html

Distribution is one problem, I guess, though as Nell says, it's surmountable once you understand how it works. Marketing beyond the shops you can physically get to must be one reason why local books can do so well, but it's tougher for fiction. It must partly depend if you cost your time. Talking of Amazon, I'm sure a search there would turn up books on self-publishing.

But then the thought of doing any of it makes my blood run cold, and I don't suppose I'm the only one. I've known I need to drop by all my local independents for weeks, armed with the relevant issue of The Bookseller, and have I done it yet?

Emma