Hi All,

I am writing my first novel, but at not even half way through I have already penned over 200,000 words and I estimate (as I have a brief outline of the plot) that the finished product is likely to exceed 500,000. I am now starting to panic! I have been told my a number of my friends I shall never get a book that length published. Anyone know if this is true? I thought of ways to cut it down -but feel that is only going to ruin it. Half of me does not mind whether it is ever published or not -but how can I share my story with others if I can't ever get it into print?
Any suggestions?

cotopaxi

Cotopaxi, well done for getting that far. You've obviously got something there that's got you really excited.

It's true that for general fiction, anything over around 150,000 words is something that agents and editors would notice as on the long side. The further along towards the commercial end of things you're writing, the further towards 200,000 I would say you could go without anyone being bothered. At the more literary end, 80,000-120,000 is the range often quoted.

Fundamentally, a novel should be as long as it needs to be, and sometimes you can't know how much and which parts of the world and the story you've got in your head to write, until you've written all of them. So don't do what might ruin it now. You'll know a lot more about it when you've finished the first draft.

When you've got the first draft there, and are embarking on the revisions that will turn it into your second draft, you will probably find that you need to be ruthless, not because you 'must' get it down to a certain length, but because there's stuff in there that isn't earning its keep. I would suggest that as a quick rule-of-reviser's-thumb, you reckon that anything - every word, sentence, scene, character, sub-plot - that doesn't add to the heart of the novel in at least two ways should be ejected. Everything you leave in should a)advance the main plot or one of the important subplots AND b)be important in developing character or place or themes or sets of images or ideas. However beautiful a piece of writing, if it doesn't earn its keep in both those ways, it shouldn't be in there.

Serious surgery like this should probably wait until you've written the whole thing. But it would do no harm to keep that principle in your head as you go storming on with the first draft. You'll learn a lot as you go. And don't forget, cutting can mean whole chunks of plot, or it can mean filleting out one word in four in each sentence. You'd be amazed how much more powerful your writing will be if you do the latter. Waxlyrical just had to cut his synopsis from four pages to one, which he never thought he'd be able to do, but by all accounts including his, it's hugely improved.

Good luck with it!
Emma

<Added>

I think what I'm really saying is, don't make any assumptions or take any abstract decisions about length yet. Let what the writing needs decide how you revise and revise and revise it, and when at last you've got the novel absolutely and exactly how it needs to be, of itself, what length it is becomes almost irrelevant. It didn't stop Susannah Clarke, after all, did it!

Tks for that Emma,

I shall get the first draft finished and then look harshly at what I have written.
One of the problems (and you likely suffer the same) is that when I close my eyes I so clearly see the characters and images in the book, I perhaps tell the reader too much.
And now I'm on a roll with my problems -what about characters? I have created my characters so vividly now that at times I find they are unable to follow through the story in the way I wish. I have already had to rewrite what I have so far to try and change slight aspects of their characteristics so they will fit easier into my plot. Oh well I maybe shouldn't admit that -it must be the worst thing a writer can own up to -losing control of their characters! But I can't be the only person who has this problem? Perhaps that accounts for the length of my novel so far?

No, on the whole, losing control of your characters is a good sign, I think. If your gut is telling you that X just wouldn't do that, then your gut's probably right; we have far better instincts about human behaviour than our conscious minds know. I think it's hard to change characters in any major way; the fact that they're misbehaving is a sign that you've developed them into 'real' people, and it's hard to subtract one characteristic and keep the whole person feeling real. It's easier to change the plot, on the whole, and much more likely to be convincing, though it seems like more work, and I know it makes your heart sink when you have to excise a whole thread.

Having said that, a long time ago I had a bunch of characters that I really liked, but didn't know what to do with them. I invented a whole thriller-plot simply in order to have a reason for them to do things that would reveal their characters and relationships. At last (or rather, quite quickly) the plot ground to a halt, and I had to cut it, which was most of what I'd written. But by that time I knew an awful lot more about them all, and was able to construct a plot that sprang from the family situation I'd put them in, and moved forward because of what each character's nature made him/her do.

If you're really struggling to fit plot and characters but want to let the characters do their thing, AND it's coming out very long, could it be that you just don't need so much plot? If the characters are well-developed enough, the action can be just as exciting when it comes from within them as what happens in the outer world.

Emma

Don't panic! Do as Emma says and write what you need to write before editing it. And don't worry overmuch about length - Penny Vincenzi has exactly the same problem - I went to an interview she was doing and she said she writes what she needs to write, and then she and her agent cut it up into a 2-parter or trilogy as necessary.

So you're not alone ...

Good luck!

A
xxx

That's interesting, Holly - P.V., and I have the same agent!

Emma

Marvellous, Emma - you can write long then!!

)

A
xxx

I do, I do...

Emma

Cotopaxi,

I’d go along with what Emma has said. However…

I perhaps tell the reader too much

If this is what you’re worried about, upload a section – preferably the opening thousand words or so – and let’s have a look. We might be able to show you how to prune it.

Dee

Hi all,

Tks for all your help.
I have uploaded first few pages. I am only in the early stages of writing and redrafting so any suggstions would be very much appreciated.

tks
Cotopaxi

Yes, I'd agree with the above - don't panic! The important thing is that you're writing, and getting your ideas down. There are several ways to combat writing such an epic amount of words. First, there is editing, and secondly, you can always split the novel into two or even three books, can't you?

Sure - people say that agents and publishers may balk at size, like a virgin on her wedding night with a famous porn star - but if it's good enough, it'll attract the attention it deserves anyway.

Take Susanna Clarke's first novel Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell as an example. Clearly it is over 200,000 words, but still got published (and to rapturous applause) as one (somewhat unwieldy) volume.

My own novel-to-be-published was 220,000 words unedited. After three redrafts and editing, it is now 130,000, and far better for it.

JB

My own novel-to-be-published was 220,000 words unedited. After three redrafts and editing, it is now 130,000, and far better for it.

That's the key, isn't it: to have the confidence as you wield the knife that it will be better. Maybe it helps to think of that huge first draft as thinking aloud rather than writing the novel.

I think writers tend to be either cutters or adders, and I'm perhaps in the minority in that I'm an adder. If a cutter's first draft is thinking aloud, my first draft is like a giant plan or skeleton: rather short, with the right number of bones and joints but not much more. The revision process is often about putting flesh on the bones, rather than cutting away the fat. But it does have to be real flesh - muscle and tendon and sinew - not just fattening the beast for market by tossing any old scraps into the sty.

Emma

Emma!

At last, another adder! Yes, I am in that club too. I have a rough skeleton even before I start to draft and then I put the meat on the bones so editing and rewriting is sometimes more creative than the draft. Glad to know I am not the only one who does this. S

Shika, no, I don't think you are, but I think we're in the minority. I used to worry when I read things about how-to-write and it always said cut-cut-cut, because that was the least of my problems!

Having said that, I do cut, but it's more likely to be filleting individual sentences. I had an interesting experience with my story 'Russian Tea'. It was 5,250 words, and I had to get it down to 5,000 to enter it into a competition. I succeeded, regretting some of the things I lost. Then I used MS Word to compare the two versions, and accepted or rejected each cut I'd made. In the end, about half the cuts I kept cut, and about half I restored to the original, longer version. The finished story was about 5,125, and all the better for the surgery.

Emma