Alex,
I still don't think that really changes whether someone gets a novel published or not - there is nothing secret or special going on behind those doors. Or maybe when I was there I was so dense I just didn't pick up on it. It's just too easy to say 'ah well it's alright for her, she walked the same corridors so she was bound to get a publishing deal'.
Myrtle

Hear, hear, Myrtle!

I used to work in publishing - albeit at the academic non-fiction end - and I have friends and even relations at various levels, including very senior. I came very close to work being bought more than once. But none of them did buy my work, and I've always assumed it was because it wasn't good enough.

The other thing to remember is that a publisher's first duty is to his/her existing authors, and that duty largely consists of staying in business. Everything else has to help, or at least not hinder, that basic purpose.

Emma

If you read my replies, Myrtle, you will see that's not what I'm arguing. All I am saying is that there is value in having inside knowledge of an industry that one is trying to sell into. You can talk to them knowledgeably, for one thing, and that alone opens doors.


Alex

Alex, I appreciate the theory but I don't think it has much weight in practice. But as I said before, perhaps it's just that my perspective is skewed.

Myrtle

Thank you Alex, that is exactly what I meant.

The fact that her short story (the one about Wellington and his missing horse), and eventually her book, were championed by World Fantasy Award winner Neil Gaiman on his website, certainly helped. One gets the idea that they are friends, from her interviews etc.

Of course, her book is brilliant, and no doubt Susanna Clarke is worthy of the adoration. I'm just pointing out that she can't be the only one out there with such talent. Except some writers have better channels to lift themselves off the slushpile of obscurity and to the attention of the right pair of eyes. To think that this kind of 'leg-up' doesn't go on in any industry, from nepotism to bribery, is highly naive in my opinion.

Colour it anyway you like, there is a lot of truth in the old adage: It's not what you know, but who you know.

And you can take that to the bank.

JB

And you can take that to the bank.

Especially if you know the bank manager ;-)


Alex

You can talk to them knowledgeably

The difficulty is getting that far with people who really aren't interested in hearing from you till you've got a whole book to show them anyway.

Emma

I think both (or all) POV's here are valid. After all, who knows at the end of the day? Ask me when I've made my first million and am lying on a beach in Nevada.

Yes...it really will be that long.

JB

Highly naive as I am, I can only tell you what I saw from the inside, albeit a tiny corner of the inside.

Number of times someone asked me to look at their book: gazillion.
Number of times I found something good enough to take further: less than 5.
Number of times all the other departments who have to be consulted agreed with me enough to make an offer for the book: none. Damn those Marketing and Sales people!

Still, maybe children's departments are less corruptible.

In my experience, having a whole book, or even three, doesn't make the process any easier. It still takes several months just to collect half a dozen rejection letters that tell you nothing at all about why your work is being rejected. That's one point at which having good contacts might make a difference. Even if all it does is get you half a dozen reasons for rejection, that's a pointer in the right direction.

The second stage where it would help is when, having had the book published, you are trying to market it. That's when I think friends inside the business would really help, because reviewers, purchasing decision-makers, other authors, etc. will listen more to their peers than to people they don't know. The most effective forms of marketing are those which spread the word about a product through the grass-roots - i.e. through people talking to friends who talk to friends... This is true of absolutely anything that is being sold, anywhere.


Alex

I can imagine it's all relative, Myrtle. I've never seen China, but I believe it exists Susanna Clarke certainly deserved to be published as far as I'm concerned. I'm just saying that from my impressions, she didn't get there by 'coming in off the street' if you understand?

JB

[quote]That's one point at which having good contacts might make a difference. Even if all it does is get you half a dozen reasons for rejection, that's a pointer in the right direction. [quote]

That is true, I think, so it'll help in your development as a writer. It might even get a bit more read than the first page. But I don't think it'll get you published without other things to help, such as the book being good enough.

Emma

Of course, we are all ruling out celeb-books here, I take it? Because that aspect of publishing has nothing at all to do with money, does it?

JB

JB, yes I get that, I was only saying that it shouldn't detract from her skill as a writer (which you've confirmed it doesn't). I just think it's easy to get carried away with the weight of the old adage you mentioned. And of course (cue honest moment) my underlying reason for getting so involved in this debate is that I would HATE HATE HATE to get a publishing deal and for everyone to sit around saying 'well, she used to be an editor so...'

Point taken.

JB