Whatever happened to the art of keeping these appalling statements INSIDE their heads?

Perhaps this is down to TV influence. The way journalists put points of view to interviewees is very similar, on TV news bulletins at least. They often ask very direct and pointed questions, and seem not to distinguish between personal ones (which may be of interest to the public) and important ones (which are in the public interest).

I think the belief that being a full-time mother is demeaning also has roots in feminist dogma. In trying to encourage a wider set of roles for women (which, of course, no rational person can argue with), there has been a tendency to be dismissive of the roles women have had in the past, including full-time motherhood and being a "housewife". Both of these roles are, in fact, much tougher than most careers, because they tend to be open-ended in scope and 24/7 in hours.


Alex

Yes, but I think the demeaning of housewifehood goes much, much further back than that, so far back and so deep that feminists couldn't afford to admit that some women might find it fulfilling and actually want to do it, because for too many centuries women were told that that was all they should want to do.

One of the perennial dilemmas of feminism (and mutatis mutandis gay/race/disabled lib. movements too) is whether you say, 'women aren't just housewives, they can run multinationals' or 'housewifery is just as good as running a multi-national'. In other words, do you try to change the perceptions of women's capacity at work, or the perceptions of the work that women do?

Going back to the original thread, I do recommend Margaret Atwood's Curious Pursuits, which is a collection of her occasional writings. I have my reservations about her as a novelist, but she writes so well about writing.

Emma

[quote]In some ways I think it's toughest of all for the short fiction writers.[/quotes]

And what about the poets..!

One of my fiends is a full time mother and housewife (a horrible term - imlying that a woman is actually married to a building) and I wouldn't want to change places with her. In many ways, I think it has to be one of the hardest jobs in the world. Anyone watching a woman trying to feed a six year old breakfast through one almighty tantrum - complete with Ready Brek throwing - would agree with me. Anyone seeing how little freedom she has, how much of her own life has been exlipsed by said little monster/angel, might also be moved to concur.

JB



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Exlipsed? Eclipsed!

All of which should serve to enhance the esteem in which mothers and "housewives" are held. My personal hero, in fact, is my own mother, who did all of this with a panache and skill that, in other roles, would be regarded as exceptional talent.


Alex

JB, I'm so glad you know a fiend - it seems appropriate!

Yes, I've been a single parent since my younger one was two, and frequently still feel as if I'm drowning in their needs. It's not that they're demanding children, by most measures, it's that what they reasonably need demands so much of me. I cope by doing the absolute minimum of cooking and cleaning, but I know I'm missing out, as I actually love the more creative kinds of housewifery: cooking, sewing, decorating and doing fun things with the children; the un-fun but necessary ones take all the fuel I have, and I have no reliable refuelling system.

Mind you, it has its pluses: my ferocious drive to write is partly the product of my desperate need to keep something valuable alive and uncompromised among the chaos and grime.

Emma

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Fredegonde, yes, you're right about the poets, though I admire how they've got stuck into developing readings as an alternative outlet.

And is he still a friend, Roger?

To answer your question, Nik, yeah, sure. To be fair to him, he does have a lot on his mind at the moment and it was some of that that he felt needed to be written about. Unfortunately, it's just not going to be me who writes about it. I am amazed that people think that writers are short of ideas and need these suggestions to help them out. My problem has often been too many ideas - not knowing which of the themes, characters, stories that are clamouring for attention in my mind I should give my attention to first.

I know what my next book will be and I'm building myself up to starting it. But I still have ideas, some sketchier than others, for the next few after that. Who knows if I'll ever get round to doing them, or will get distracted by something else.

Bit of a tangent: I genuinely have a recurring dream, in which I suddenly remember this great book that I've already written. It does everything I want to do in a book, is hugely entertaining, has a great story, the best thing I've ever done, or will ever do. The end of the dream is always this feeling of 'I can't believe I forgot I'd written this - it's so brilliant.' That feeling solidifies into the certainty that I haven't actually written the book and I wake up feeling profoundly disappointed and a wee bit depressed.

Just thought I'd share that.

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Re: the dream - I can never quite shake off the feeling that I might actually have written it. It must be there in the boxes of old papers somewhere. One day, I probably will search through them and know that I have, in fact, gone mad.

Motherhood is fiendish - but it can be fun?

It helps to say this to yourself - often.

We're lucky - ours tend not to throw the ready brek, probably because they know there's a good chance we'll throw it back.

Today's parenting tip - don't buy ready brek, wheetabix or playdough. They can do all that at nursery school. Especially, don't try to make play dough...

Emma - I so agree with your "ferocious desire to write" - me too!

Sarah

and don't buy Duplo. It hurts far, far too much when you walk on it. Unfortunately, I couldn't really refuse to buy my son's size 9 regulation Army boots when he joined the Cadets, even though they hurt far, far too much when I stub my toe on them.

Emma

Sorry, got to take a swerve away from the main topic too. On the subject of home-made Playdough.......I once did this but realised at the crucial moment I only had posh salt granules and none of the normal Saxa variety. Never mind, I thought, I'll just put some in a bag and crush it with a mallet. My son had already wandered off, bored, but I gave it a go....and cracked my back step in two in the process. Oops!

cracked my back step in two in the process

Bet your son doesn't argue with Mummy now.


Alex

Actually, I think he just concluded I was even more of an idiot than he already knew.
I didn't know until then that a six-year-old was capable of raising just one eyebrow....

Ah, a student of Roger Moore!

Yes, I also "cope by doing the absolute minimum of cooking and cleaning", which is one of the many reasons I wouldn't call myself a housewife (another one being that I'm not a wife, but anyway, that's a whole other can of worms). And I'd agree with the "ferocious drive" as well. I don't feel a bit sorry for myself in terms of the "demands" of full-time motherhood (okay, maybe sometimes at 4am), only in the sense that in this country you are damned if you go back to work and damned if you don't. I compromise by working when my child is asleep, but that also gets a 'that's so sweet' from some people. I assume they say that because they can't think of anything else to say to a person who spends most of her day wiping peanut butter off the sofa or building extravagant Duplo towers that get knocked down in seconds. Ahh, toddlers.

But to get back to Atwood...! Emma, what are your doubts about her as a novelist? Any books in particular made you feel this way?

Myrtle

[/I think being able to shape entire worlds out of thin air, the dedication and toil it takes, and the requisite passion to create beauty out of human language make being a writer a lot more than just a 'job description'.]

I think JB put it so well that was a really lovely description. I think any books worth reading are those that connect you to the character. the ones where you absorb their thoughts and follow their actions and the disappointment you experience when its over. I've rarely found books like those. an example would be The Road to Memphis by mildred d. taylor. anyone can think of an idea to write about (in my opinion) but to be able to express your stories in an articulate, witty and romantic nature is what its all about!

The most annoying question i find (and i dont tell many i wrote a novel - seriously) is "whats it about?"
I hate to have to define my entire story in few sentences. And you never know what they're thinking anyway, at most they'll be polite (certainly not honest) or sometimes they pursue and i get a red face thinking i sound cheesy. the great thing about this sight is people are honest with good intentions so you know your getting the best kind of help - from others who love to string beautiful words together!


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Hmmm i dont know how to do a quotation box! :)