Just found this while browsing writers' websites. It's Margaret Atwood, beeing horribly, wonderfully accurate about the pains of the publishing process:

http://www.web.net/owtoad/road.html

Emma

That was a really good read, and most informative. At the moment, I'm on the 'personal taste' satge with my editor, and after a lot going back and forth, finally feel I am getting somewhere.

I long for the days when I used to think you wrote a book, sent it out, got it published, everyone loves it, and you retire a rich man. Sigh.

A picky point : When Margaret says 'would-be writers', she means 'would-be authors'. Someone approaching an agent with work is already a writer, whether a good one or a bad one. Spinach, anyone?

JB

JB,

Is someone approaching an agent with work classed as a writer though?

At what stage can we call ourselves a writer - is it from the moment we write our first article/short story/novel, or is it from when we first have something published.

Isn't it a bit pretentious to call yourself a writer if you haven't even had anything published?

Kat

I think, if you write you’re a writer, if you get paid for it then you’re an author.

Grinder

I think you're a writer when you start giving up normal bits of life in order to write - social life, more than the minimum work, opportunities. You're an author once you're published.

Emma

I'm just amazed that Margaret Atwood apparently has to suffer the same "pains of the publishing process" as everyone else! Is she being quite honest here, do you think - or perhaps basing her precepts on the experiences of lesser mortals, maybe her students?

Frances

Absolutely, you are definitely a Writer once you construct a piece of writing where you have made a decision to put pen to paper at nobody's bidding but your own.

And, I agree with Grinder, when you are paid, then you are an Author.

It's all about how you see yourself. Only you, no one else can determine who you are. It's an identity thing.

However, when you take the description of yourself, as a Writer, out into the big bad world, it's another matter. If you say you're a Writer then expect that someone will want to see what you have done. And that's a good reason to have your work uploaded here at WriteWords or anywhere else on the internet so you can direct people to where they can view the work that you have created as a WRITER. A little self promotion does no harm. Then it will come down to whether or not you are a good writer or a bad writer and we all know, a reader's judgement is just a "point of view", a matter of taste.

Di2
Writer, Artist, WebDesigner and Bookkeeper

I make a distinction between 'writer' and 'author'. But there is also a difference between someone who writes, and someone who writes with a mind to do it professionally. Millions of people write, but in terms of a professional view, filling out a shopping list or a tax form certainly doesn't fall into that category.

When people say to me 'oh, you're a writer', I smile and shake my head. 'No. I'm an author.' I tell them.

Then, as punishment for my pride, they generally hit back with the Number One Writer's Gripe:

'Oh, I've always wanted to write a book'.

'Oh,' I reply, all dagger-teethed, lips curled into a frozen smile. 'And what do you do now?'

'I'm a brain surgeon'.

'Right. Good. I always thought I'd give that a go. You know...one day...'

JB

If you say you're a writer when you haven't been published, then you have to be prepared to explain why you call yourself one, every time. For many years. I know, I've been there.

JB, my answer to 'I've always wanted to write a book...' is 'Great!' with my best encouraging-primary-teacher-smile, 'Go for it!' If they add '...when I can find the time,' I add, 'A page a day is a book in a year.' That soon shuts them up.

One person in a hundred waits till later in the party, and on Dutch courage, asks you properly how it's done, and you know you've got a real writer. Then I point them towards WriteWords.

Emma

<Added>

Judging by Margaret Atwood's Curious Pursuits she didn't get anywhere with her career much faster than any of the rest of us, which is comforting.

Well said Emma, Grinder and Waxy. I think you've summed it up really well.

The thing that gets me whenever I tell people what I do is the: "Oh, well, everyone's got a book in them" retort. No they haven't! And even if they had, well, let's just say that Waterstones stores would have to be much bigger, and leave it at that.

By the way, even though I've got a novel coming out (September don't you know! Plug, plug) I still refer to myself as a writer not an author. Don't know why. Think it might be a shy thing. There you go; that's me.

Nik.

<Added>

Oops, meant to say - good Atwood link by he way.

I agree, a writer is someone who writes. A professional writer is someone who earns a living at it which is something else entirely. Everyone on this site is a writer, but very few are professional writers.

"Author": you've got a book published. Does that include self published ones? Ones that sell under 500 copies? Over 2000 copies? One million copies.

To me, if you earn your living writing then you are a 'writer' the rest is just a hobby.

Brian.

Thanks for sharing this, Emma. I really enjoyed it. And it's nice to know even the greats have to face these things. I have found the editorial process quite pain-free. There were changes suggested. Some I challenged. Most I was happy to go with. The editor wanted to remove one section of my book (fairly short, actually - a few pages). At first I didn't agree, because I was attached to it, and someone who had read the manuscript told me it was one of their favourite bits. However, I reminded myself that the editor was on my side, was trying to help me (protect me, even, from my own mistakes) and that they had far more experience than me. It was an aesthetic decision and I went with their call. I feel now that including that section would slow the story up at a crucial place, that it's tighter and more compelling without it. I didn't eally get worked up about it at all. I knew that all the editor was trying to do was help me make my book as good as it could be for when it goes out there into the public domain.

The old, when you are a writer question. Fantastic fun that is, with people seeming to think that having the tag confers upon you wisdom that other mere mortals lack. It always, to me at least, smacks of someone like Robbie Williams or Geri Spice Girls woman whose surname has escaped me, continually referring to their 'art' or their 'artistic nature'.

I don't know why. Maybe it's my deep seated working class background that tells me that real people are plumbers, miners, electricians, builders. Illusory people are bankers, writers, actuaries and the like who work with chimeric materials. For clarity, I am one of those illusory people nowadays.

I think maybe, in all probability, it is just me.

I am not a writer, definitely not an author. When it comes down to it, it is just a job description and something to put on the next census.

Still, good article.

I think being able to shape entire worlds out of thin air, the dedication and toil it takes, and the requisite passion to create beauty out of human language make being a writer a lot more than just a 'job description'.

I agree with Nik about the 'everyone has a book in them' notion. When people tell me they are going to write a book, I always ask them what about. Nine times out of ten they draw a blank, and you realise they're just saying it. When they say, invariably, that they will write about their life, I gently ask them what is so fascinating about it. Usually another blank. I then kindly suggest that I'm not really that interested in people who are 'going to do things' and humbly inform them you either do or you don't. I never thought of writing a book as some droll chore I may or might not do in the future. I simply had to write, or I suspect I would have gone mad.

The ones who ask me to write their memoirs always get particularly short shrift. 'Now why,' I ask, 'would I want to take up my creative time by writing about you? What is so special and amazing about you? Have you scaled Everest, escaped terrorists, circled the globe on foot, had a religious vision, killed someone, been abducted by UFO's? None of the above? Oh, I see - you've lived in one town all your life, have an average job, are married with two kids and worried about your pension. Well, I'm sure that will make a thrilling read.'

JB

I have had people, in all seriousness, say to me: 'I've got this great idea for a book/film. all I need is a wordsmith to help me get it down on paper.' In fact, I went for a drink with a friend the other week, who proceeded to tell me what I should be writing about. The words, 'That's what you should be writing about, Roger,' actually passed his lips.