I have a book, or at least a collection of stories finished and am preparing to look for an agent as a first step.

I am having six chapters profesionally edited before sending them out. So far I have only had one edited as a test to see if our styles work together. I have been really pleased with the results but here is my question.

Should a beginning writer attempt to have his whole book professionally edited before sending it out? Or should that be something that a publisher would hopefully work with him on. The reason I ask is because it could be fairly expensive to edit a whole book only to find nobody is interested.

Brian.

Hi Brian,

I've just made the decision to have the whole of my book looked at by an editor before sending anything out.

Yes, this is an expensive process, but my reasoning is that even if no one wants this one I would have learned (hopefully) something for the next.

Cheers

Harry

Thanks Harry.

That is my view on the chapters I am having done so far. Each one is like a lesson as far as I'm concerned. I have learnt a lot from the first one. Can't wait to see the others. Still, the six are not cheap. I shudder at the thought of fifty.

Brian.

Brian, you would hope that an agent would work on your writing, but it isn't always the case, and you've got to get one to take you on first. They vary very much in how good they are at seeing the good wood in your work for the under-developed trees and how much forestry work they're prepared to put in. Publishers these days will almost certainly reject a work if it isn't pretty much ready to publish, and many won't even look at unagented work.

I'd have said that if you've found someone you get on with then go for it, in instalments if necessary. It is expensive, but it should short-cut a lot of rejections, and as you say, you'll have learnt an awful lot even if this book doesn't sell in the end. Plus, it's always good to be able to say in your submissions that it has been professionally edited.

My only caveat is that you describe yourself as a 'beginning writer'. Before you commit yourself to spending all that money, it might be sensible to have a no-holds-barred conversation with your editor about whether your work really is nearly 'publishable' yet. If there's still a fair way to go, you might want to think about cheaper ways to get yourself near that level - CW classes, intensive WW, writers' circle, whatever - before you shell out for the heavy-weight work your editor can provide.

Good luck!
Emma

Hi Brian - I've never used one of those freelance editors. I did once get a screenplay I wrote assessed and was very happy with the reading. But that was done under a service provided by British Screen, I think, or London Film, or something. Ie, some kind of body set up to help film makers and writers, and not a private individual. If you've already had one chapter done and are satisfied with what they have said, then great. Doing it one chapter at a time seems sensible too. Sometimes, though, you can get a lot of perspective on something just by leaving it for a while (anything from one month to six, or even longer) and going back to it. It sounds obvious but there's no point paying someone else to spot things you might see yourself with a bit of objectivity. Once you've done that, you could still involve an editorial expert to help you take it even further.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Hi Brian,

Isn't this something any good agent and publisher should be doing for you? As a writer, we write the stories, they should do the rest. As you have found out, otherwise, it can be a very expensive business.

Good luck with it all though.

Kat x

Isn't this something any good agent and publisher should be doing for you?

If only.

Emma

I personally think the ONLY way forward is to use an editor. An agent or publisher will not/cannot do it for you and probably wouldn't take on a badly edited story anyway. It's a very valuable thing; not just to improve your story but to improve your writing as a whole.

Sue

I'm only going by what I've been told. That a good publishing house will have an editorial department to do all the editing for you, so that you dont have to search and pay for one yourself. Obviously you should send them a well presented manuscript, but this is something you can do yourself. If however you are not confident that you can present your manuscript in its best form, then of course there is nothing wrong with using an editor.

Kat

Unfortunately, I think its up to the writer these days to make sure their manuscript is ‘good to go’. As far as I can tell, publishing houses that actually edit are about a rare as rocking horse manure.

I’m planning to have the first three chapters of my book edited before I start approaching agents with it. If any of them bite and want to see the whole manuscript then I’ll be straight on the phone to enquire if it’s OK to send the rest of the manuscript unedited.

Grinder

I think there's a confusion about two different kinds of editing here. The two jobs overlap, but are very different.

A publisher should certainly copy-edit your MS: make sure everything's correct and consistent; sort out punctuation; check dates, places, spellings of foreign words; check that the author has, for example, quoted a letter from earlier correctly in a later chapter, and that there aren't slips in plotting and so on; point out things like words repeated close together; make things such as capitalisation and variant spellings conform to house style. The bible for this job is Judith Butcher's Copy-Editing (CUP), and it's this, I think (Roger, are you there?) that the Macmillan New Writing scheme has decided to dispense with, as it's very expensive. A top copy-editor would ask for 4 weeks to do the job properly.

But the kind of editing that editing services do is that job, plus what I've know to be called structural editing, which your publisher's editor will do with you only if you're lucky: about development of plot and character, pace, language, voice. Only unlike a creative writing tutor, s/he will have one (if not both) eyes on suiting the market that s/he thinks it's right for. It's this job that publishers are unable to do these days, as the pressure from above for each editor to handle more and more authors, and to make a predictable profit on each book, increases. The good ones would love to have more time for this, but can't, which is why they are less and less able to take on a promising book that needs this kind of input, and why agents and freelance editorial services and CW courses have grown up to fill the gap.

Emma

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It's also why good editors so frequently end up as agents

Hi Emma, just saw your post. Macmillan New Writing have not dispensed with any kind of editing. My book was edited. Both copy-edited, and edited-edited. (See the new article 'Kafka and me' on my blog for a bit about what that actually meant - http://rogersplog.blogspot - sorry to pimp, but it is relevant if you're interested.) What made MNW controversial with regarding to editing is that they suggested to some of the writers they did NOT

<Added>

sorry, somehow I posted by accident.

to continue...


they suggested to writers they did NOT take on to go to freelance editors to help them knock their ms into shape. They basically gave them the website for the association of proofreaders and editors. This was essentially a rejection. There was no guarantee that the resulting book would be published. It was to be done at the author's risk and expense. They attracted a lot of flak for this and I think it was a mistake, but their intention, I believe, was simply to be helpful. They did not suggest it to me and if they had I would have told them where to go.

But my book was edited, properly and professionally.

<Added>

I was writing this post at haste. Unfortunately, I can't edit it. Sorry for the sloppy writing (with regarding to editing - AGGGGHHH!)

Roger, that's what I remembered you describing, but certainly not the impression I remember getting when the whole thing was first announced. So where do you reckon they're saving the money? What are they not doing, that they would normally do?Please don't think I'm knocking the scheme, I think it's very interesting in what it reveals about how the trade normally works, and I hope it succeeds.

Emma

Emma, one major way is they're not paying writers advances!

Another way is they are only taking on books that don't need a lot of editing. Books that are pretty much ready to go. That's not the same as saying they will publish any old crap.

But the aim of the exercise is to get new writers into print. It comes out of trying to think of a way round the economics of publishing. They will also probably not be spending hugely on marketing. Writers will have to do what they can to generate their own publicity.

Roger,

I noticed from their website that the format they request submissions in is the full ms as an email attachment. This strikes me as very different from the majority of agents/publishers who want hard copy and a couple of chapters only. This makes me think that their approach to the 'slush pile' must be very different and maybe they are cutting costs there too. Personally I like this approach and I imagine it's one that stands a better chance of making a decent assessment of an ms. On the whole, I quite like their style and I intend to submit my ms to them when I get to the end of my rewrite (if I ever do).

Ashlinn

<Added>

I just realised that the phrase 'cutting costs' might seem derogatory but I mean it in the best possible way. They seem to have a creative attitude to reducing costs (hence perhaps the comparison with Ryanair. I don't understand why that comparision is seem as negative. Despite their very low fares, Ryanair is one of the most profitable airlines in the world. You have to admire their approach.) The management of the slush pile must be a major cost element for any agent or publisher. At least this way MNW don't waste time and effort reading submissions of uncompleted novels or novels that are too short or long for their requirements and they don't waste time either asking for the full ms so they can react quickly when they do find the right ms for them.